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  1. #21
    Player
    ArianeEwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    136
    Character
    Ari Dyones
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    You don’t need either in your opener on DRG. BRD and MNK burst for more than DRG does in terms of opening burst.
    Your first statement is wrong. Diversion is common in DRG openers, look up any decent DRG guide, or speed run and you will see it by yourself. Don't soften your enmity in your opener, and you risk ripping it off of the tank soon.
    Keep in mind that Elusive Jump is a positioning tool and should not be used unless you really screwed up your enmity.
    Lowering your burst enmity in the first 30 sec from 8k-10k to 800-1k is HUGE and will keep you safe from creeping up the enmity bar.
    Also, if the tank has lower gear then DRG, I garantee you: DRG will rip aggro from tank without Elusive Jump or Diversion.

    Your second statement, again half true.
    MNK burst is indeed higher than DRG, yet the only (useful) available tool for MNK is Diversion and they must use it.
    BRD burst on the other hand isn't necessary higher than DRG's. It varies depending on Crit-/DH-luck, BRD-procs and party synergy.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,876
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade View Post
    It’s DF. Not static, savage raid, fflogs type stuff. Do an extra aggro combo and move on. If my blm pulls aggro, you’re not doing enough damage in dps stance anyway.

    Diversion pre pull is no problem. Using Lucid because you wanna dps messes with my mana for 3 rotations.
    Uh, BLMs prefer Lucid to Diversion. If you're not using it, you've done something wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    BRD burst on the other hand isn't necessary higher than DRG's. It varies depending on Crit-/DH-luck, BRD-procs and party synergy.
    To be fair, in an optimal setting, BRD aggro will generate far higher than DRG unless RNG utterly hates them. That being said, you have nothing better to take than Diversion. TP has kind of become a moot point nowadays, so Invigorate isn't what it used to be.
    (0)
    Last edited by Bourne_Endeavor; 07-13-2018 at 12:23 AM.


    Omni-Melee | Dark Knight | White Mage
    Disciple of the Hand | Disciple of the Land


    "The Monk is asked by the party to take out the trash. The monk picks up the Samurai."
    If you fancy chatting or simply want to yell at me over something: Cassandra Solidor#6309

  3. #23
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    The Lavender Beds’ God-Tier Medium
    Posts
    3,372
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade View Post
    It’s DF. Not static, savage raid, fflogs type stuff. Do an extra aggro combo and move on. If my blm pulls aggro, you’re not doing enough damage in dps stance anyway.

    Diversion pre pull is no problem. Using Lucid because you wanna dps messes with my mana for 3 rotations.
    Enmity management is a party-wide responsibility. So while, yes, the tank can do an extra aggro combo, your BLM should also be trying to control their own enmity instead of forcing the responsibility onto others. I don’t feel sorry for DPS that refuse to use their enmity tools given to them to control their aggro when they die due to ripping hate.
    (1)

    Bard | Red Mage | Triple-Threat Healer

    Feel free to add me on Discord if you want a friend or just someone to talk to: Hyomin Park#0055
    I will reply to messages whenever I am not busy studying, sleeping, or raiding. ^^ If I do not respond quickly, then I’m sorry, but I am quite busy sometimes!

    Signature was made using: http://ff14card.tank.jp ; Credits to the creator!

  4. #24
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,778
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Uh, BLMs prefer Lucid to Diversion. If you're not using it, you've done something wrong.
    We use both, especially if there's no Ninja, and on encounters with adds.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Stabby-Chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    16
    Character
    Mia Redburn
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Here is my updated enmity combination
    Since I am overgeared and I tank as a white mage (and in raids am protected by a PLD's Cover)

    New Aggro Combo for 2 Tanks + WHM + NIN

    1) PLD fights using Tank Stance and Generates as much aggro as possible.
    2) WHM uses Asylum and all party members get in.
    3) NIN uses Shadewalker on WHM and continues to DPS boss

    4a) WHM uses PoM + Thin Air + Largesse followed by 5 - 6 Cure IIIs + Swiftcasted Medica II + Planery making sure all eight members are hit.
    4b) During this time PLD uses Cover on WHM to redirect damage to self especially tank busters.

    Tanks now regain control
    5) Main Tank Shirks the White Mage and then uses Provoke
    6) Off Tank uses Provoke and then Shirks the Main Tank

    7) White Mage uses Lucid Dreaming to cut Enmity in Half

    Enjoy the Super Aggro Lead
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Ekimmak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    442
    Character
    Carlo Vinne
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    DRG shouldn’t even need Diversion—they have a free aggro dump every 30 seconds lol. They have no excuse for aggro problems lol.
    There's two problems with that: One is that it directly removes their uptime. Two is that some fights are not good for a player to suddenly jump in a random direction (like fire III).
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,876
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekimmak View Post
    There's two problems with that: One is that it directly removes their uptime. Two is that some fights are not good for a player to suddenly jump in a random direction (like fire III).
    I mean, your GCD loss isn't going to make up the difference of forcing a tank into tank stance at the cost of 20% of their damage, plus MP and using a less potent combo. So... use Diversion to avoid this problem or I will let you die. :v
    (0)


    Omni-Melee | Dark Knight | White Mage
    Disciple of the Hand | Disciple of the Land


    "The Monk is asked by the party to take out the trash. The monk picks up the Samurai."
    If you fancy chatting or simply want to yell at me over something: Cassandra Solidor#6309

  8. #28
    Player
    Ekimmak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    442
    Character
    Carlo Vinne
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    I mean, your GCD loss isn't going to make up the difference of forcing a tank into tank stance at the cost of 20% of their damage, plus MP and using a less potent combo. So... use Diversion to avoid this problem or I will let you die. :v
    I am a tank. I just have a dragoon alt.

    And personally, I will jump into tank stance if I think my threat OR my survivability needs it, because I deal with PUGs enough that I'm not risking it.
    (4)

  9. #29
    Player
    Megguido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Minati Illu
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan View Post
    Here is my updated enmity combination
    Unfortunately, that may be the most inefficient threat opener ever. You lose:
    - About 4k DPS (maybe more ?) at the start of the fight (since PoM + spam Stone IV deals a lot)
    - Your most powerful mana management tool for the next 2 minutes
    - Largesse, depends on the fight but sometimes it's good to have it early (looking at first forsaken)
    - Cover, unusable for the next two minutes (on O7S and O8S, Cover is very useful even in the first 30s into the fight for example).

    A WAR or DRK can generate as much hate at the cost of a minimal DPS loss, but instead of 7 healing spells you get 7 Stone IV during the initial raid buffs window. And you keep all those buffs for when they are needed.
    (0)
    Last edited by Megguido; 07-13-2018 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #30
    Player
    Naryoril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Y'sira Fhela
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Enmity management is a party-wide responsibility. So while, yes, the tank can do an extra aggro combo, your BLM should also be trying to control their own enmity instead of forcing the responsibility onto others. I don’t feel sorry for DPS that refuse to use their enmity tools given to them to control their aggro when they die due to ripping hate.
    It's a party wide responsibility, yes, but yet you are promoting that everyone but the tank, who's primary job is keeping aggro, take that responsibility (since it seems you don't want to use the aggro combo at all). The tank is part of the party too, you know?

    Letting a DPS take aggro and then let that DPS die, having him being ressed with almost no mp and tp lowers the party wide DPS way more than throwing an aggro combo now and then, or even switching to tank stance for 3 aggro combos or so and subsequently not needing to worry about aggro anymore. The suggested tank behaviour you promote here is hurting the party and thus yourself, just because you want to DPS, but don't want DPS queues.

    Again, to avoid a misunderstanding: Yes, DPS should use their aggro tools, but if they don't, it's the tank's responsibility to make up for their mistake. Imagine what would happen if healers did the same: Only heal the damage that is unavoidable, if someone gets hit by some avoidable AoE, don't heal that portion, because it lowers the healers DPS. That's the healer equivalent of what you are promoting for tanks.

    Every party member is supposed to make up for other party members' mistakes if they can. And again: the tank is also a party member.
    (8)
    Last edited by Naryoril; 07-13-2018 at 05:39 PM.

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