It would be nice not to be hated

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Smn is only more popular due to their raise. Black mage is ahead of them on dps while adding in smn's total dps contribution on pretty much any fight outside of a few niche fights. It should be a much larger gap though. I mean lets face it, if they didn't have a raise, you'd probably take a mch for standard clears, or a rdm for prog instead.

Actually, it isn't. At 75% and above, Summoner beats Black Mage in Phantom Train, Guardian and God Kefka. They are essentially tied in Clown Kefka. Only against Chadornook does Black Mage pull ahead. At 95%, Black Mage does pull slightly ahead on some of those fights (only noticeably so in o6s). None of this account for Summoner's rDPS contribution, which is why it's popular. People are the higher levels are dropping Machinist for Summoner because the latter is simply that damn good. They certainly don't need a raise, though it's helpful.

This has remained a consistent problem for selfish DPS jobs. They simply aren't doing enough damage to compensate, though the buffs have somewhat helped. That said, perception won't change due to their one dimensional playstyle. Perhaps if the damage gap was worth gambling the player knows how to play either effectively, this may change.

[Zerathor]

Actually, it isn't. At 75% and above, Summoner beats Black Mage in Phantom Train, Guardian and God Kefka. They are essentially tied in Clown Kefka. Only against Chadornook does Black Mage pull ahead. At 95%, Black Mage does pull slightly ahead on some of those fights (only noticeably so in o6s). None of this account for Summoner's rDPS contribution, which is why it's popular. People are the higher levels are dropping Machinist for Summoner because the latter is simply that damn good. They certainly don't need a raise, though it's helpful.

This has remained a consistent problem for selfish DPS jobs. They simply aren't doing enough damage to compensate, though the buffs have somewhat helped. That said, perception won't change due to their one dimensional playstyle. Perhaps if the damage gap was worth gambling the player knows how to play either effectively, this may change.

if a job's contribution to rdps via buffs is less than 190, i don't really feel its worth factoring in. roughly around 75%, yeah smn can be ahead, as that is the range where blm has a harder difficulty curve to surpass. As far as what the job is fully capable of however, blm is superior in raw damage, including smn combined with their "raid contribution" damage. But yeah, blm really does deserve about 4% more dps to widen the gap, as any job with a raise should never even be able to compete on damage output to one who doesn't.

its also worth taking into consideration smn's in that skill range are far more likely to have a meta group for buffs compared to a blm which will take whichever party they can. so even if they seem ahead at 75%, i'd wager its due to having 1 or 2 more meta support jobs in the party to buff their damage.

[NaruKnoxx]

I mean bro id just change your main

[Zerathor]

I mean bro id just change your main

This is the mentality that needs to just die off. You shouldn't accept the problems with current game design, they should be corrected.

[Wayfinder3]

thing is, fixing samurai just pushes the problem somewhere else, especially since a case needs to be made for issues that warrants a redesign in the first place. if SAM isn't the best after some massive overhaul, the community will continue to meme it into oblivion and if it is? Then the next worse job will be the subject of these threads

[Zerathor]

thing is, fixing samurai just pushes the problem somewhere else, especially since a case needs to be made for issues that warrants a redesign in the first place. if SAM isn't the best after some massive overhaul, the community will continue to meme it into oblivion and if it is? Then the next worse job will be the subject of these threads

the issue with sam is there just isn't even a contest for it. its primary competition it needs to beat is monk on pure dps, but it just doesn't beat monk in most cases and the monk still brings brotherhood. It needs to at least become a consideration of "is this amount of dps worth losing this utility" but its just not, its "do we bring sam, or do we bring sam with better damage and slight utility (monk)" which still is often outclassed by nin and drg due to their group synergies, but being significantly comparable to a monk is the first starting point it needs to reach.

[Wayfinder3]

the issue with sam is there just isn't even a contest for it. its primary competition it needs to beat is monk on pure dps, but it just doesn't beat monk in most cases and the monk still brings brotherhood. It needs to at least become a consideration of "is this amount of dps worth losing this utility" but its just not, its "do we bring sam, or do we bring sam with better damage and slight utility (monk)" which still is often outclassed by nin and drg due to their group synergies, but being significantly comparable to a monk is the first starting point it needs to reach.

Sam’a Problem isn’t that it doesn’t beat mnk, it’s that The utility melee are just better than there lower utility counterparts. Beating mnk doesn’t make samurai any better except for maybe o6s

[Dualgunner]

Sam’a Problem isn’t that it doesn’t beat mnk, it’s that The utility melee are just better than there lower utility counterparts. Beating mnk doesn’t make samurai any better except for maybe o6s

Not saying anything one way or another, but these problems are not mutually exclusive.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

if a job's contribution to rdps via buffs is less than 190

Except, it is. Summoner's overall contributions are 457.7. This generally puts it ahead of Black Mage even if the latter also has a meta comp, which is one reason why Black Mage is decidedly unpopular. At the lower levels, where Raise is more valued, it only becomes worse. Black Mage only suffers less static wise because you aren't giving up the infinitely valuable Piercing and Trick Attack. Which brings us to...

the issue with sam is there just isn't even a contest for it. its primary competition it needs to beat is monk on pure dps

It actually does, though their rDPS remain a bit too close. Regardless, Samurai beating Monk won't solve a thing. Dragoon and Ninja offer so much utility, they simply cannot be unseated by pure damage unless Samurai gets buffed into the moon. Look at the raid calculations I posted. Samurai has no answer for Trick Attack, and especially not piercing. This also highlights why selfish DPS are such a problem in this game. Say the Ninja dies, they aren't nearly as impacted since 25% of less damage is less overall. And if their death occurs without messing up the Trick window, the loss is far less noticeable. A Samurai, on the other hand, is hit much harder since they offer literally nothing except high damage. If that Samurai dies and is now being out done by a Dragoon, they have nothing to help mitigate the loss.

On the more selfish party side, people will always prefer utility because FFlogs. It's easy to say, "don't worry about your logs! They don't really matter!" Which is fine. People do care though, and you aren't going to abruptly change their minds. So either the devs accept this or Black Mage and Samurai continue to suffer going into the next expansion.

[Zerathor]

Well, that's just further proof smn needs nerfed into the dirt