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  1. #21
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    491
    Character
    Kharagal Mierqid
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    That's... not how a Primal works at all...

    Using lots of aether in itself isn't a bad thing. It's like using lots of energy IRL; it gets converted from one form of energy into another. So long as the energy stays in the "Hydaleyn" aether system, it's fine. Most of the aether we use to defeat Ascians is given to us by Hydaleyn herself. Unless you're a Summoner; then you've got enough aether to take out minor Ascians on your own with Deathflare while in DWT. Given that Trance is something Allagan Summoners used to be able to do, it's not something special to just us, the Warrior of Light.

    The problem with Primals is that they take aether out of the "Hydaleyn" aether system for the duration that they are summoned. Once they are defeated, that aether goes back to the "Hydaleyn" aether system. The issue is if Hydaleyn loses too much aether at once, which is what the Ascians want.

    Minfillia is almost the opposite of a Primal. She gave her aether to Hydaleyn so that Hydaleyn could keep functioning after Hydaleyn spent a bunch of aether protecting us from Ultima. In fact, the reason Minfillia is at another shard is because she's getting its excess aether to add to Hydaleyn's aether...
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player
    MicahZerrshia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,593
    Character
    Mica D'lyn
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    That's... not how a Primal works at all...
    Primal lore in convoluted at best. And there is no one specific way they work since the lore is always being built upon and there are many various types of primals and not just one set template.

    Being beings of the mothercrystal we could simply be just like those beams then. A manifestation of aether, not a primal like ruda that corrupts aether on a massive scale, still a primal of sorts. We have learned Primal is not a cut and dry thing and they come in many variations.

    Sure we do not consume crystals but we also may not be aware that we can if we are unaware we are primals. Perhaps the other primals were unaware of their abilities until they learned what they could do by absorbing crystals. Ysayle showed us a person with the echo can learn to use crystals and take a full primal form and not be detectable when they are not full on primal mode because they are not ever absorbing aether from around them. Having the echo could just be an indicator or a pupal or unrealized primal. And we have fought beside at least 1 primal and it was fine and dandy. So again its ok when we do it. Lore is such a fickle thing.

    But the case for us being a Primal is not closed. There are just too many variables and unknowns.
    (0)
    Last edited by MicahZerrshia; 07-04-2018 at 02:58 PM.

  3. #23
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,317
    Character
    Temujin Haragin
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia View Post
    But the case for us being a Primal is not closed. There are just too many variables and unknowns.
    Do we really have to deal with the whole "Warrior of Light is a Primal" bit every time their past is brought up? This is really old...

    Aside from the counterarguments others have brought up, two points:
    • Innocent until proven guilty
    • Burden of proof rests on the believer

    The Warrior of Light is not a primal until it's been proved they are, and if you're the one who believes that to be the case you need to support that hypothesis with evidence. Not speculation or interpretations or throwing out possibilities and variables and unknowns. Evidence.

    Until there is evidence or confirmation from an official source, the Warrior of Light is not a primal.

    The morality and ethics of the Scions' activities are a pissing match I'm not interested in. Prove the Warrior of Light is a primal with evidence.
    (9)
    Temujin Haragin's Way Status (4.4 - End)
    [ ]LOST [X]NOT LOST
    "A thousand pegasi led by one dragon can defeat a thousand dragons led by one pegasus." -Saias: Bishop of Flame, Fire Emblem Heroes

  4. #24
    Player
    MicahZerrshia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,593
    Character
    Mica D'lyn
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    Do we really have to deal with the whole "Warrior of Light is a Primal" bit every time their past is brought up? This is really old...
    idk do we really have to keep bringing up origin stories?

    You could also say the WoL is also a primal until it is proven they are not. The burden of proof is not just for one particular side just because you don't like it.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Lucke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Character
    Lucke Arrayo
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Burden of proof lies with the party making the claim. So people who like to say "The WoL is a primal!" better have evidence to back up that claim. Just as the people say "LOL! You noob, the WoL is NOT a Primal!" has to come up with their own evidence to back up their claim.
    (8)

  6. #26
    Player
    Keever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    122
    Character
    Lyon Polnareff
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia View Post
    idk do we really have to keep bringing up origin stories?

    You could also say the WoL is also a primal until it is proven they are not. The burden of proof is not just for one particular side just because you don't like it.
    The burden of proof is on the "side" that is suggesting something that is outside of the widely-accepted status quo. In this case, you.

    And proof has already been provided for why the WoL isn't a primal, anyway: the Scions, particularly Y'shtola, can freaking see it. Your argument is "but what if everything about the way the world and characters are presented to us is false!" which is a ridiculous level of forcing-your-own-headcanons. Many characters, including Erik and some Ishgardian dragoons, read aether levels in the land with aetherometers and don't say a thing? The Scions meet us for the first time, before we've done any primal-slaying heroics, and don't bat an eye? Come on....

    "The WoL is strong and people like them" isn't a strong argument for them being a primal.
    (5)

  7. #27
    Player
    TinyRedLeaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    496
    Character
    Lyland Battersea
    World
    Chocobo
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    The idea of the WoL being a primal has unfortunately become something of a meme, and rational attempts to point out the lack of proof isn't going to kill this particular conspiracy theory.

    I would suggest to those who insist on pursuing the idea to consider this lore-compliant possibility instead:

    Rather than a primal, the WoL could instead be a highly advanced egi. In short, the latest SMN storyline revealed that the last and greatest Allagan summoner, Sari, had developed a machine capable of computing advanced arcane geometry at far greater volume and speeds than any mortal could. The machine was thus capable of summoning an egi of Sari that was so realistic, it was initially indistinguishable from a real person.


    It'll still be an extremely far-fetched idea for the origins of the WoL, but it's at least more plausible than the WoL being a primal.
    (6)
    Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 07-04-2018 at 04:33 PM.

  8. #28
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,317
    Character
    Temujin Haragin
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia View Post
    idk do we really have to keep bringing up origin stories?

    You could also say the WoL is also a primal until it is proven they are not. The burden of proof is not just for one particular side just because you don't like it.
    I don't particularly care for origin stories; I have a loose headcanon for my own character, and that's enough for me. I'm not the one who brought it up.

    There is no direct evidence the Warrior of Light is not a primal, but the circumstantial evidence surrounding the Warrior of Light should be more than enough to debunk the idea. Midgardsormr, who would definitely know if something was up with the Warrior of Light, refers to them as simply a very strong / resilient mortal, and nobody in the story treats them otherwise. Meanwhile nothing has even suggested the Warrior of Light is a primal.

    I'm not ruling out the possibility, but until it's proved to the be the case that's all it is - a possibility, and there's a veritable mountain of circumstantial evidence against it.
    (8)
    Temujin Haragin's Way Status (4.4 - End)
    [ ]LOST [X]NOT LOST
    "A thousand pegasi led by one dragon can defeat a thousand dragons led by one pegasus." -Saias: Bishop of Flame, Fire Emblem Heroes

  9. #29
    Player
    uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    361
    Character
    Pa Lin'guine
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    I think we've gone bit off track here. The point of origin story isn't to go back to the past and relive it. We all end up in the same plot anyway, so doesn't matter who we were. The original question was "Why not someone from our past has intersect with our plot yet?". WoL as a blank canvas is fine, but we do need the finer brushes in the story. This is different from "WoL without a past" (=Primal/Egi WoLs), these wols wouldn't need a brush, they just need to push a button and *poof* recloned. If Y'shtola were disposed, shouldn't Y'hmitra made aware? Thancred even made sure Allisae stayed to hear news from Alphinaud. Anyone who travels a lot get homesick now and then, even if they have no ties, that's the point. I think something like 'picking a homeland zone', can fill in this blank, it doesn't have to be full blown with ties to relatives/family.
    (0)
    Last edited by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu; 07-04-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  10. #30
    Player
    Nestama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,209
    Character
    Nestama Eynfoetsyn
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    The Warrior of Light is closer to being an Ascian than a Primal, if you think about it (they also have the Echo, for example). What we know about Primals so far is that them having a physical form requires them to feast upon huge amounts of Aether and consuming too much can kill Hydaelyn (so it's counterproductive for Ascians to try and kill the WoL, as well as it is for Hydaelyn to even grace us with her Blessing).

    Anyway, if there was an 'origin story' quest for my character, chances are I will not like it. My character is mine and not for someone else to write a history for.
    (8)

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