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  1. #1
    Player
    Bec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Akiva Myriam
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70

    Please fix tank accessories already, it's been 3 patches

    I seriously don't understand why this hasn't been fixed, BiS accessories for tanks should not be crafted gear 20 ilevels under cap that cost millions of gil to buy and pentameld. It's not good design, hurts pretty much all players, and is unfair to tank players compared with other roles.

    The fix I would suggest would to make accessories have a CAPPED amount of strength (yes, you shouldn't have to meld strength either, all other roles can customize their accessory melds) equivalent to the current max you can get with a STR VI meld, and then simply make that number increase by 5 or 6 every 10 ilevels.

    I really don't see this being at all difficult to fix, there's barely any number crunching involved and it probably amounts to a few lines of code at most as it's just a number which will have a flat percentage effect on tank dps and will require no ability or potency tuning.
    (26)

  2. #2
    Player
    dragonkyn20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Kairo Fujima
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    As a tank main here, I honestly hate seeing my item level being lower than other jobs I gear because of my accessories just so I can play more optimally with crafted stuff.
    (3)
    If I die, forgive me. I used to be a Dragoon.

  3. #3
    Player
    whiskeybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,225
    Character
    Whiskey Bravo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Agreed. There are several easy fixes they could push without upsetting tank DPS balance. It's just a matter of SE actually doing it.
    (0)
    Scrubbing it up @ twitch.tv/whiskey1bravo

  4. #4
    Player
    Tex_Mex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    318
    Character
    Tex Mex
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Just give all tank accessores 2/3 of the strength you would get from DPS accessores and then cap them there so that Strength can non longer be melded. Whle you are at it, just remove all the main stat materia (str/dex/int/etc.) entirely. That crap never gets used by anyone except tanks.
    (4)

  5. #5
    Player
    Nezerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,180
    Character
    Rintha Elenah
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bec View Post
    The fix I would suggest would to make accessories have a CAPPED amount of strength (yes, you shouldn't have to meld strength either, all other roles can customize their accessory melds) equivalent to the current max you can get with a STR VI meld, and then simply make that number increase by 5 or 6 every 10 ilevels.
    Do you mean, for example, the current crafted iLvl 350 accessories would have a STR meld cap of 15, with the Diamond accessories having the full meld cap of 25? (Guessing that'd have to be lower, since there's gonna be another iLvl tier in 4.4).

    If this is the case, there's two issues:
    1. It'd be restricted by the amount on the highest grade of materia. Any increase above that wouldn't make any difference, since you'd still be limited to 1 primary stat materia (can't overmeld primary stats).
    2. It's likely that they can't adjust the meld cap like that, since it's all calculated by the item's iLvl.

    The first issue could be fixed by having STR VI give +72 STR, making it a lot easier to plan ahead for an entire expansion:
    • i320 Crafted at +10/+12, i340 Genji/Tomestone at +20/+24
    • i350 Crafted at +25/+30, i370 Diamond/Tomestone at +35/+42
    • i380 Crafted at +45/+48, i400 Raid/Tomestone at +65/+72
    Unfortunately, that also means a massive power creep further down the line (not the mention the 2nd issue of meld caps being calculated using iLvl).


    The main issue is STR scaling poorly with iLvl increases, on the item itself. The difference between an i350 Crafted accessory and an iLvl 370 Diamond accessory is just 1 measly STR.
    I think they should just go back to having tank dps be affected by VIT instead of STR. That stat has much better scaling. Difference in VIT between i320 Crafted/Genji is 17, and the difference between i350 Crafted/Diamond is 18.
    (0)
    Last edited by Nezerius; 07-03-2018 at 03:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    whiskeybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,225
    Character
    Whiskey Bravo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezerius View Post
    Do you mean, for example, the current crafted iLvl 350 accessories would have a STR meld cap of 15, with the Diamond accessories having the full meld cap of 25? (Guessing that'd have to be lower, since there's gonna be another iLvl tier in 4.4).
    No.. Sounded like they're asking to cap str on accessories so we wouldn't have to meld it, because no other job has to meld their "main stat". As an aside, both accessories are capable of +25 str melds so I don't know why you're thinking 350 would have a different increase than 370?

    The problems with the OP's and Tex's suggestion is that the increase is not really enough to justify it as an "upgrade". DPS accessories from 350 to 370 gain +14 str. So it would need to in this range for it to really feel like an actual upgrade (ie, not "marginally better" - it needs to be a hand's down upgrade with little to no debate about it)

    I also don't think they'll ever go back to Vit main stat. It was a huge overlook that food would boost main stat attack power. Vit doesn't really have better scaling, it's just that it increases appropriately, not throttled increases like with str. If str scaled properly then you wouldn't even think about a vit damage formula.

    Best suggestion I've seen thrown around is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aana View Post
    Lv all content below level 50 was designed with Tanks wearing Vit gear in mind in the 1st place. Adding Str to Tank accessories increasing tank damage by X% while also lowering overall tank damage by X% simultaneously does nothing at any level.

    Actually theres an even simpler way. Lower Tank weapon damage by X% where X% is the damage gained from full str stat on accessories.

    Random Numbers Example:
    Adding Str to accessories increases tank damage by 25%. 100 damage=125. Lower all weapon damage by 20%. New damage of 125*0.8=100. Same damage.

    That applies if your level 15 or 150. Tack on the ilvl appropriate amount of Str to every vit accessory. Lower base damage of all weapons to compensate. End result is all tanks do the same damage post change as pre change. All gear now matters. Vit/Damage are still separate stats.

    If anything it would be a buff to lower level jobs. Currently we have ~40 str on accs. That would jump to 90+. Lets just say 2x the bonus. At levels below 70 vit accessories have 0 str. So a level 69 accessory might go from 0 str to 80ish. That is actually a greater buff to jobs below 70. 70+ we only gain ~50% of the full value because we already have half the str. lv 1-69 accs would gain 100% of the value.

    This would be a tank buff 1-69 and a sidegrade lv 70+.
    Basically, give tanks full str on accessories so they are actually worth rolling on in Raids. And if Tank DPS is too much, use the Weapon Damage to balance their output. EZPZ
    (1)
    Last edited by whiskeybravo; 07-03-2018 at 04:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Nezerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,180
    Character
    Rintha Elenah
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeybravo View Post
    No.. Sounded like they're asking to cap str on accessories so we wouldn't have to meld it, because no other job has to meld their "main stat". As an aside, both accessories are capable of +25 str melds so I don't know why you're thinking 350 would have a different increase than 370?
    Oh, I see. OP worded it kinda weirdly. Wasn't sure if they're were talking about the melding cap being increased with every 10 iLvls, or the actual STR on the item itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
    I also don't think they'll ever go back to Vit main stat. It was a huge overlook that food would boost main stat attack power. Vit doesn't really have better scaling, it's just that it increases appropriately, not throttled increases like with str. If str scaled properly then you wouldn't even think about a vit damage formula.
    We'd still be in a better situation than we currently are, when it comes to choosing between crafted or raid accessories.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
    Best suggestion I've seen thrown around is this:



    Basically, give tanks full str on accessories so they are actually worth rolling on in Raids. And if Tank DPS is too much, use the Weapon Damage to balance their output. EZPZ
    If it were as easy as simply giving all tank accessories full STR (149 on the Diamond ones, 135 on the i350 crafted ones), than why haven't they done so already?
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    whiskeybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,225
    Character
    Whiskey Bravo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezerius View Post
    If it were as easy as simply giving all tank accessories full STR (149 on the Diamond ones, 135 on the i350 crafted ones), than why haven't they done so already?
    Your guess is as good as mine. Recall it took them over 10 months to finally do something to DRK.

    I don't know if the exact stat weights were ever figured out but 60-70 str is probably only 2-3 weapon damage, maybe even just 1-2. Theoretically it's about the easiest solution anyone has come up with though. It's not about making them a DPS increase per se, it's just about making all slot upgrades equally valuable. Gain a little str on one side and adjust WD so overall damage close to the same as before and call it a day. And if it ever gets too out of whack all they'll have to do is adjust WD.

    *edit: I forgot there's 5 accessories T_T.. So +80 str * 5 acc = 400 str for however much WD

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    Making strength melding unnecessary is the only change that should be made to raid accessories.
    But then what? Leave str as it is? Cap it same as DPS? I don't get the impression SE is just willing to give us a free DPS upgrades for the hell of it. A plan that is DPS neutral would probably have a better chance at getting adopted. (IMO, but it's often wrong so.. Lol)

    (if they did cap the str and adjust WD at least it would solve the melding of str problem)
    (0)
    Last edited by whiskeybravo; 07-03-2018 at 06:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,898
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 70
    Making strength melding unnecessary is the only change that should be made to raid accessories.
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,006
    Character
    Raldo Volca
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    Making strength melding unnecessary is the only change that should be made to raid accessories.
    I can't believe they haven't set the STR cap on these accessories as whatever they come with. It's stupid to allow tanks to allow the direct melding of their damage stat when other jobs can't do the same.

    I don't know why they haven't just gone all-in on the Tanks-are-VIT-only thing and just made VIT the tank damage stat. STR would then be completely useless, and they could set their precious balance to whatever they need to. If they're worried about that approach, they could leave the STR as maxed on all the tank gear, then secretly make that STR do absolutely nothing.
    (1)
    Last edited by Raldo; 07-03-2018 at 07:19 AM.

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