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  1. #21
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Ven Valentine
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    That's a fair assessment, and I imagine many healers feel the same, but it's fine if some healer jobs allow for that gameplay style, because at the end of the day, WHM, SCH, and AST will still be around.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    Spiroglyph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    612
    Character
    Soft Boiled
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    For me it's fun. I can't really answer the question of "is healer DPS fun or not" in a vacuum, because from an objective POV pushing one or two buttons over and over again doesn't seem very engaging. What I do like about it, though, is the part that gets me wondering just how/when to cast my heals, considering the following:

    1) I can't let people die
    2) I want to heal only the least possible amount in order to DPS the most I can

    So the fun part of it is not the repetitive casting of whatever offensive spells a healer has, it's trying to improve how to balance both healing and DPSing in order to make a run as smooth as possible and walking out knowing you not only kept people alive, but made the run considerably faster than it would have been had you sat there twiddling your thumbs.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Sylvain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    778
    Character
    Sylvestre Solscribe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    I find healer dps rather boring, I kinda like putting the DoTs but spamming Stone/Malefic/Broil is just boring


    Honestly, I'd rather have to spam cure than dps skills. But since boss in this game hit like wet noodle, unless there is a massive balance rework in 5.0, this is definitely not going to happen.
    Which makes me wonder if I should still play healer. I love healing but spending 80% of a fight spamming Malefic just doesn't feel right.
    Being able to dps because the group plays well and take no damage should be a reward for great play, not the default mode. (granted you dps more when people don't die / take useless damage)

    It's like, "oh healer are only useful to heal that big boom once every 30sec, you can be afk the rest of the fight or perhaps try to pewpew a little."

    Obviously the less people fail the more prominent this becomes.

    So, do we have to dps? Not really, not until you reach last savage and ultimate. (I mean if we hit the enrage on tsukuyomi and no one died, I definitely do not consider it's my fault as a healer because I failed to poor in enough malefic/broil)
    Should we? well unless you enjoy standing there like a retard 80% of an encounter.... perhaps you should

    Is it a chore? to me it is. DoTing is ok but having more malefic cast than any other action combined is just lame. And i'm not even a great healer dps

    So I have this argument against Square's standpoint that players who don't heal or tank will not heal or tank no matter if there's a new healer or tank or not. I totally believe there is an opportunity to add in new play styles to healers and tanks similarly to how DPS has melee, ranged, and casters.
    I unfortunately do not agree with you (but I wish I would)
    Some player might play a healer / tank if there were more options. But many players simply don't like it, wether is it the gameplay or the responsability part.

    I mean, my bf is litterally traumatised everytime he has to heal. Even if the boss does 1 AoE every 1min he almost has a heartattack everytime the AoE happens (even if no one drops below 40% without being shielded)
    I healed with him a few times (simple stuff like Lakshmi) , I didn't even bother talking about "dpsing". He was litterally spamming the tank with cure1 the entire fight. And trust me every tank buster made him panick, even if the tank wouldn't drop below 50%

    He's a special case, I grant you that. But many player just cannot handle tank/heal because they feel they have the group responsability. (Which is funny because technically speaking, bad dps are as bad as bad tank/heal. If your dps suck the boss won't die)
    (0)
    Last edited by Sylvain; 06-18-2018 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #24
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    651
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    The problem with rebalancing so that normal dungeon bosses are hard and hit like a truck, is that a lot of lesser-skilled healers are suddenly unable to clear 4man dungeons.

    I mean, look at Bardam's Mettle, or Aurum Vale. I still see healers in there failing to keep people alive, especially when people multipull.

    I don't know about you guys, but I don't relish the idea of wipefests in MSQ dungeons. If you want hard/engaging challenge and 4mans aren't good enough for you, then do some Ex Primals or go to Savage Raids instead. No need to insist the bar be raised just because it isn't challenging enough for you when there are other options.

    It's healthy for a game to have the main base content be a bit easier as long as there is harder content for those who want it.
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player
    AmurT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    73
    Character
    Jesse Amur
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    I just wish DPSing was more than just a single button. For AST, it's not fun to be spamming Malefic 99% of the time with a Combust thrown in every 30 seconds. I love that there's no strict rotation to follow but I also want it to be so much more.
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Adeacia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    101
    Character
    Adeacia Skysong
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    I dps as a healer as much as I can because I enjoy doing it. I like when tanks pull everything and I can holy spam.

    I enjoy the challenge of trying to keep everyone alive while doing as much damage as I can get away with.
    (3)

  7. #27
    Player
    IttyBitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    163
    Character
    Kasumi Shirinami
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Healer DPS isn't really a chore, but the way it's implemented leaves a lot to be desired. Spamming cure is functionally no different from spamming Stone. I don't see why anybody would enjoy it more from a gameplay perspective. Even from a "feel" or "theme" perspective that's a pretty hollow reason for preferring to press a healing button over a DPS one. One makes a bar go up. Other makes a bar go down.

    Healing is at its most fun when you have to juggle tasks. Current content doesn't really give you much to juggle. Debuff removal is practically non existent since cleanses were thrown into cross role and practically all debuffs can't be removed anyway. Heals are immensely powerful and incoming damage is relatively low outside of spikes. So we're left with optimal "rotations" that boil down to "maintain dots, spam nuke, throw out a heal when necessary", which don't really help things. So they either need to change up the way they make content, or change up how healers do DPS.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,038
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    The problem with rebalancing so that normal dungeon bosses are hard and hit like a truck, is that a lot of lesser-skilled healers are suddenly unable to clear 4man dungeons.
    There's a little more to it than this. Although you use 4 man dungeons as an example, this problem exists even in the most difficult savage raids.

    It essentially comes down to damage in FFXIV being all burst oriented. So it doesn't really matter if you're in that 4 man roulette dungeon, or trying to kill Kefka. In a Savage raid you'll maybe need a shield to survive the hit, but in both cases: you heal up the tank/party after damage, and then there's nothing to do but DPS.

    Even if dungeons were tuned to hit like a truck, this facet of FFXIV's design would still exist.

    IttyBitty pretty much nailed it:
    Quote Originally Posted by IttyBitty View Post
    Healing is at its most fun when you have to juggle tasks. Current content doesn't really give you much to juggle. Debuff removal is practically non existent since cleanses were thrown into cross role and practically all debuffs can't be removed anyway. Heals are immensely powerful and incoming damage is relatively low outside of spikes. So we're left with optimal "rotations" that boil down to "maintain dots, spam nuke, throw out a heal when necessary", which don't really help things. So they either need to change up the way they make content, or change up how healers do DPS.
    But it's worth emphasizing this is true even in savage content.
    (0)
    Last edited by Risvertasashi; 06-19-2018 at 08:11 AM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    651
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Well the idea is if you're having to heal more often, you do a lot less DPSing. Half of the reason why the healers do so much DPS is that they have far, FAR more raw healing power than they should actually NEED, and you get these 5 seconds here, 10 seconds there that you're doing jack all, so why not throw some rocks?

    But throwing rocks is incredibly boring, especially in easier content where there's no danger. Yeah maybe savage raids and ex primals you need to time it well and weave it in, and do it right or die, but it's still symptoms of the same problem, but one without an easy solution. We could do all WoW-like where a tank goes from 20% to 80% to 20% to 80% needing constant heals or they die in 3 seconds flat, but that's not fun for the healer. I HATED WoW healing with a passion when I tried it. It was terrible.

    But yet XIV's healing gets boring at times.

    I think having more than 1 button DPS might help a little. At least then if I need to solo quest as WHM, it wouldn't be so flippin' BORING doing nothing but casting Stone repeatedly. No, I don't want three 3-button combos to switch up, or swapping between 6 different Ver spells, or what-not, but could we go past the 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 stage perhaps?
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,038
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    I think having more than 1 button DPS might help a little. At least then if I need to solo quest as WHM, it wouldn't be so flippin' BORING doing nothing but casting Stone repeatedly. No, I don't want three 3-button combos to switch up, or swapping between 6 different Ver spells, or what-not, but could we go past the 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 stage perhaps?
    There are alternative solutions. Give healers buffs to toss out. On the GCD, not as cooldowns. With a duration similar to regen or aspected benefic. And to avoid the 1 button spam problem... create combos you can progress through. For example, start with a 2% DPS buff. If you hit a 3 second window at the end of the buff, you can turn it into a 4% DPS buff. If the recipient deals X damage within that timeframe, you can proc them to a 6% damage buff. Etc.

    So you can have a minigame of trying to get and keep someone or several someones at the max buff level.
    (0)
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