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  1. #11
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    1,843
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 66
    Healer DPS by itself is not really engaging. There are no specific rotations or DMG+ buffs given for doing it. What makes DPSing as a healer engaging, is weaving it in between heals. I'd put two months pay that every hardcore healer here is LOVING it when they do this in content. Is it a AoE Balance followed by x4 light speed+gravity then helios? Is it shadow flare + bane inflicted on 10 mobs plus a indom after a big attack? Is it x8 Holy with no MP drained from the WHM and a Bene bringing the tank back to full health on a massive pull?

    Healers are ridiculously powerful in this game, and when played optimally, which includes maximum DPS uptime plus timely heals and shields pretty much makes a party invincible. Nothing save a one shot or a tank tossing their keyboard/controller in the air can kill a skilled and experienced healer.
    (5)

  2. #12
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,117
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaxia View Post
    I find healer DPS boring and unengaging, most of all because it involves spending 90% of the time hitting a single button and it often feels I'm trying to be a subpar DPS than a healer.
    But would it be less boring to stand there pressing zero buttons 90% of the time?
    If not filling down time with offensive spells, the other option is to overheal or to do nothing; and if the healer is overhealing, he might as well be doing nothing with his down time -- the outcome would be the same.
    (0)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  3. #13
    Player
    Lunaxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    753
    Character
    Rin Aomine
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    But would it be less boring to stand there pressing zero buttons 90% of the time?
    If not filling down time with offensive spells, the other option is to overheal or to do nothing; and if the healer is overhealing, he might as well be doing nothing with his down time -- the outcome would be the same.
    It would, and that's why I do it. My opinion isn't "DPS isn't fun therefore we shouldn't do it", just that I wish there was more to it either through more DPS options or give healers more to actually buff/ heal.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player
    Squintina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,016
    Character
    Squintina Nightgard
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    I find it very enjoyable (SCH and AST at least), especially when I'm progging. When something's new and still relatively difficult because of having to learn the fight, the balance between healing, rezzing, and doing damage can actually lead to MP getting low. The worse the party as a whole is doing, the more balance is needed and it's honestly just so much fun to try to figure out when I can push, and when I can't. Then starting out farm mode, to try to maximize the dps while minimizing the heals, is also a fun little puzzle.

    Once it's reached though, it's whatev-.

    Because of this, I find terrible pugs in easier content somewhat enjoyable. The worse the players are, the more balancing is needed to carry them. Nothing like helping out a friend with sigma normals, but it's only 3 of us so we have to DF the rest and you know you end up with at least 1 person whose mission seems to be eating every missile. Ah, balancing people like that for heals/rez/dps is just so much fun <3

    Am I a masochist?
    (2)
    Squintina's Comprehensive Controller Guide:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q_i5_X01hecbCOZOIN_71zceuSjWSuaN-OJdU6ZPV6s/

    Diadem Revival Discord (Aether, Primal, Chaos):
    https://discord.gg/H3gPBHG

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  5. #15
    Player
    Canadane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    4,168
    Character
    King Canadane
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaxia View Post
    I find healer DPS boring and unengaging, most of all because it involves spending 90% of the time hitting a single button and it often feels I'm trying to be a subpar DPS than a healer.
    I don't quite follow the logic.
    You're not against it, but you claim it to be boring when the alternative is to be doing overall less things. And generally speaking, less things is more boring. More things is less boring.
    (5)

  6. #16
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,758
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    I don't quite follow the logic.
    You're not against it, but you claim it to be boring when the alternative is to be doing overall less things. And generally speaking, less things is more boring. More things is less boring.
    If your threshold is 7, and option A is 0 and option B is 3, both options still suck, but option B sucks less.

    That's the logic.
    (8)

  7. #17
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Ven Valentine
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    What makes healer DPS boring isn't that people don't want to do it, just that it's largely not that engaging. I'd say Scholar is winning that margin the most since it has a few things to juggle in terms of DPS (Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, Shadow Flare, hitting Ruin II/Miasma II after a Broil cast to maximize damage, weaving Energy Drain and Bane into your rotations when necessary). AST, sadly, is losing this by having a whopping 3.5 DPS tools (Malefic, Combust, Gravity, and Lord of Crowns if you have it.) The trade off here is the card system which I'd argue is the most active and engaging healer aspect because there's a lot of thought that goes into not only what you do with the card you draw, but how you're going to use it with your next draw cast.

    So I have this argument against Square's standpoint that players who don't heal or tank will not heal or tank no matter if there's a new healer or tank or not. I totally believe there is an opportunity to add in new play styles to healers and tanks similarly to how DPS has melee, ranged, and casters. Dancer, being on of the most requested jobs for 5.0, has this opportunity to be a healer that plays like a DPS, and has a mini DPS rotation that has a level of complexity to it to entice players that want to play melee roles, or want more active DPS rotations while still healing the team. There would obviously need to be some compensation for this elsewhere, but I firmly believe it's doable.
    (0)
    Last edited by ty_taurus; 06-18-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  8. #18
    Player
    Lunaxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    753
    Character
    Rin Aomine
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    I don't quite follow the logic.
    You're not against it, but you claim it to be boring when the alternative is to be doing overall less things. And generally speaking, less things is more boring. More things is less boring.
    To me, DPS is a non-negotiable part of healing in FFXIV. Not doing anything isn't an option, unless you enjoy being a deadweight. That being the case, I wish there were more interesting alternatives, because it's still dull. Not doing anything being more boring doesn't change the fact I find DPSing boring.
    (2)

  9. #19
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    694
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    I don't quite follow the logic.
    You're not against it, but you claim it to be boring when the alternative is to be doing overall less things. And generally speaking, less things is more boring. More things is less boring.
    Spamming the same key over and over and over again, whether it is single-target or AoE is almost as boring as doing nothing to be honest.

    Why do you think many players quit before getting to level 10? They get bored of the same 1-2 attacks over and over and over and over and over again.
    (4)

  10. #20
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,085
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    What makes healer DPS boring isn't that people don't want to do it, just that it's largely not that engaging.
    Well, sort of. Healer DPS is low impact and unengaging, it's true. But myself and at least a few others, we would rather have more damage to heal and buffs to toss out than a full blown DPS-job-style rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    So I have this argument against Square's standpoint that players who don't heal or tank will not heal or tank no matter if there's a new healer or tank or not. I totally believe there is an opportunity to add in new play styles to healers and tanks similarly to how DPS has melee, ranged, and casters.
    Yeah, that argument of square's was always really dumb. Just because it might not attract new players, doesn't necessarily mean they should exclude a group from new content.

    And if they add more playstyles, as you say, it may just attract people that currently feel they have no option. But even if it doesn't, that's still a poor excuse for 'no new content in this area'. (Hopefully if we do get a new healer, SE won't clone WHM again, or that definitely won't attract new people...)
    (2)
    Last edited by Risvertasashi; 06-18-2018 at 03:23 PM. Reason: 1000chr

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