Healer DPS - enjoyable or a chore?

[Acidblood]

For SCH I don't mind how it currently is, as the shields (and excog.) allow you to be pro-active, while Aetherflow abilities allow you to be instantly re-active; so DPSing in-between feels natural.

For WHM I would actually like to see the return of ARR/HW Cleric Stance, as, to me, it made DPSing as a WHM interesting. (Also, SB WHM just feels a bit watered down, and its potential healing now spread over just a few too many abilities / procs / lilies; bringing Cleric Stance back would let WHM be simple and powerful again, without being OP).

For AST, I'm not sure, I enjoyed levelling it, but at 70, with heals, cards, and DPS it just feels a bit messy (and again, watered down for the sake of being 'diverse')... so yeah, maybe buff cards (e.g. lower re-draw cooldown) so AST can spend more time buffing others DPS and less time spamming it themselves.

[RopeDrink]

I've beaten this topic to death over countless threads so will spit-fire a one-time post for the hell of it.

I like to DPS, so I DPS every and all opportunities provided it comes at no detriment to my primary function of keeping people alive. I enjoy it and typically do far more damage than healing in almost any given situation. I am there to keep people alive, which has no hidden 'must keep everyone at 100% HP' rules outside of specific mechanics, so if I know there is not enough damage intake to warrant a heal, enjoy hearing those stone-thuds.

I do not enjoy being part of groups with those in that role who don't feel the same way on some level simply because things have a nasty habit of getting painfully slow compared to how I know it can go with me in that seat (give or take forgivable variables, such as being new/inexperienced/uncomfortable/under-geared and whathaveyou - gripe goes towards those who are perfectly capable but choose not to because reasons. Check any HealerDPS thread for the same-old thoughts and opinions on that topic).

As a WHM with the generic 4xDPS buttons, I have no problem with the simple style. It simply means it's very easy for me to not only do a good primary job, but also add to the others with minimal difficulty. Chances are I've done everything enough that no class-choice vs whatever-content will make it any more 'thrilling' than it already is on paper, and SE have no clear desire to remedy this through class changes. I respect this isn't enough for some, but it's fine in my book, therefor I will regard it as an 'enjoyable chore', rather than more of one or the other.

[Cassandaria]

In answer to the OP, I like to feel I'm using my toolkit to the best I can, to that end, while I hate adding DPS I do it because it's expected, and it's there. I will never like it's expected, I don't agree that it should be, it certainly separates an okay healer from a great healer, but it should be icing on the cake. It will, always be an unfun chore. If I had more to do, adding buffs, debuffing a mob, healing, mitigating and mechanics, I would probably be happier, healers have a toolkit that...unsurprisingly, focuses on healing, because of this, DPS is boring. SCH comes the closest but I don't like micromanaging in addition to having to manage my rotations (though i can accomplish it). Basically, people from if you don't turn into a happy little turret drone and press two buttons and ignore most of your toolkit so they can get their precious DPS. What I want, is a toolkit only dedicated to my job, if I wanted to DPS, I'd go as a Damage Dealer, that's...kinda the job. Give me a toolkit with creative, interesting healing mechanics any day.

[Grimoire-M]

I'd like to see healers get more dps cooldowns. Just fire and forget oGCDs that can be added in or trade a resource, similar to how SCH operates already. AST has elements of this with Lord/Lady and card buffing too, but WHM desperately lacks this, especially now that Fluid Aura no longer deals damage. Before Healer DPS was primarily comprised of managing cleric stance and DoT juggling alongside healing, and while I agree that cleric needed to go, I feel the lack of DoTs/cooldowns is responsible for the lack of enjoyment nowadays.

I'd rather see WHM go a slightly different route and reward DPSing with better healing capabilities through Lily generation and expenditure, With Fluid Aura becoming a filler oGCD to expend excess Lilies when they're not needed. For this to work Lilies obviously need to get stronger though, ideally adding different bonuses to each cooldown that align with its usage.

[Miesta]

It's generally agreed upon that healers should DPS when they can. In Savage, it's more or less imperative. Paradoxically, the consensus tends to be that the less time a healer spends actually healing, the more skilled they are (with exceptions, of course.)

When I heal, I adhere to this to the best of my ability, but I don't really enjoy it. I find healer DPS boring and unengaging, most of all because it involves spending 90% of the time hitting a single button and it often feels I'm trying to be a subpar DPS than a healer. While I certainly don't agree with not DPSing at all, I can understand to an extent the often parroted defence of "if I wanted to attack, I'd DPS." AST's card mechanic adds another dimension to gameplay that helps it feel less shallow to a degree, but I feel it quite strongly on the other jobs.

My own feelings aside, it brought to mind the question, is healer DPS actually enjoyable in its own right? Is it something healers generally like doing, or feel compelled to? To healers, given the option - would you keep it as is, prefer more of a focus on actual healing, or more expansive DPS options? Is the current method a fair way to judge healer skill?

(This is not a "should healers DPS" thread, but a given that they can and do.)

I feel like healers are pretty much forced to dps or be considered "bad" by a lot of standards. and yes healer dps is boring which is why I typically dont do it. I honestly like running around. I will admit that I sometimes do dps when I feel like it, but me being a main healer in 99% of every game I play feel like I shouldn't be forced to dps when that's not my "job".

[MoroMurasaki]

I feel like healers are pretty much forced to dps or be considered "bad" by a lot of standards. and yes healer dps is boring which is why I typically dont do it. I honestly like running around. I will admit that I sometimes do dps when I feel like it, but me being a main healer in 99% of every game I play feel like I shouldn't be forced to dps when that's not my "job".

I certainly hope you have never complained about dps not using utility like Mana Shift/Refresh/Addle and the like, or even buffs like Battle Voice/Litany/Embo/Trick... by your twisted logic these things just aren't part of their job. If you go OOM that's just your fault.

As an aside can I just say that seeing a healer (or any player, but it's almost always a healer) jump around doing nothing is legitimately my single largest pet peeve in this game. I give one warning for this in party chat now and then just initiate a vote kick. I've almost never seen it fail. Farm your own tomes or exp - I'm not here to do your work for you.

[missarielle]

I enjoy it more in dungeons than I do raid content

Going through a dungeon and using Holy as a defensive measure to stun a group of mobs so the tank doesn't take damage while doing some DPS on the side is very fun.

Spending most my mana in a fight on Stone IV in a raid and only healing occasionally is not at all fun. Single-target DPS as a healer is incredibly boring.

I would rather see the role of healer shifted to more a heal/support role in raiding. Leave Astrologians as the AOE buff kings but give Scholar Faeries more versatility for the range of buffs they can do and add some direct-target buff-spells to the White Mage kit.

E.g. Bring back stoneskin but make it a buff you can cast on the tank every 90 seconds or so that increases their versatility by 1% for 18 seconds or something.

That way what my job is during a raid is to heal up damage and apply appropriate buffs to players. I think this would be a fun and engaging mechanic that requires a little more thought and planning more aligned with what I enjoy as a healer main as opposed to what maybe a DPS main cares about.

[OcieKo]

I certainly hope you have never complained about dps not using utility like Mana Shift/Refresh/Addle and the like, or even buffs like Battle Voice/Litany/Embo/Trick... by your twisted logic these things just aren't part of their job. If you go OOM that's just your fault.

As an aside can I just say that seeing a healer (or any player, but it's almost always a healer) jump around doing nothing is legitimately my single largest pet peeve in this game. I give one warning for this in party chat now and then just initiate a vote kick. I've almost never seen it fail. Farm your own tomes or exp - I'm not here to do your work for you.

This would hold more weight if DPS weren’t always being actively detrimental in an equivalent manner. Not AOEing when theres 4+ mobs, single targeting separate mobs instead of focus firing one, not DODGING, not switching to adds immediately, doing the headless chicken dance when they get aggro, not using enmity control skills they’re when pushing enmity, not watching their own enmity... probably more I see on a daily basis tanking and healing, if I have to baysit my DerPS well they’re gunna have to feel like they’re carrying me.

On a less ragey note... id rather use a Spam Benefic pressing F1-F8 between each rather than hit Combust then spam Malefic until Combust wears off while waiting for a effective opening for literally any GCD heal. And if i have to ABC style play id rather be spam triage selecting teammates and using a heal than spamming any damage button.

[MoroMurasaki]

This would hold more weight if DPS weren’t always being actively detrimental in an equivalent manner. Not AOEing when theres 4+ mobs, single targeting separate mobs instead of focus firing one, not DODGING, not switching to adds immediately, doing the headless chicken dance when they get aggro, not using enmity control skills they’re when pushing enmity, not watching their own enmity... probably more I see on a daily basis tanking and healing, if I have to baysit my DerPS well they’re gunna have to feel like they’re carrying me.

On a less ragey note... id rather use a Spam Benefic pressing F1-F8 between each rather than hit Combust then spam Malefic until Combust wears off while waiting for a effective opening for literally any GCD heal. And if i have to ABC style play id rather be spam triage selecting teammates and using a heal than spamming any damage button.

I babysit plenty of tanks, dps and cohealers - I still don't stand around being useless.

Performing poorly by doing the things you mention is not the same as literally not performing like Miesta advocates. I am happy to shepherd a party of incompetent lambs through a dungeon for trial... once you are jumping around or emoting rather than fighting though you aren't worth my time. Same as people who single target heal for AoE damage. Any time I see single-target regens on the whole party I know I have an incompetent healer.

[OcieKo]

I babysit plenty of tanks, dps and cohealers - I still don't stand around being useless.

Performing poorly by doing the things you mention is not the same as literally not performing like Miesta advocates. I am happy to shepherd a party of incompetent lambs through a dungeon for trial... once you are jumping around or emoting rather than fighting though you aren't worth my time. Same as people who single target heal for AoE damage. Any time I see single-target regens on the whole party I know I have an incompetent healer.

Id rather have someone passively doing less than actively sabotaging the run. I greatly prefer a DPS who doesnt use their OGCDs than one and slows their DPS than one intentionally trying to make my job harder. I greatly prefer a tank thats maximizing his damage reduction and encounter control than one maximizing their DPS. And I greatly prefer a co-healer whos healing I dont have to compensate for. What you do to augment your role AFTER doing it right isnt my problem, you doing what your there for right is.

And whats the diference between say, an AST not DPSing and a MNK not using their AoE rotation, imho nothing. If you want to kick one for it, kick both for it. Either way it slows down the run. I generally just deal with it either way. MNK is made for high rapid single target DPS, but the AoE exists. You’re arguement rests on, if theres something you could be doing but aren’t you deserve to be kicked. So might as well hit everyone with the same opinion.

Based on say 100 potency single target and aoe on a 10 mob pull for simple math. If healer doesnt do dmg but keeps the party alive they are doing 100% of their healing capability and 0% of their damage capability when averaged they are at 50%. If a DPS single targets instead of AoEs theyd be at 10% since they lack a compensating factor like another important task. A PLD flash spamming while targeting ally to prevent auto attacks can be at half capability by the same logic. But at least the DPS is doing something, still seems to be a horrible justification in comparison.

Also she is healing. Which is something. And quite frankly what you want the healer to be ontop of doing.