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  1. #91
    Player
    SargentToughie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    201
    Character
    Jillian Ashfeld
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    It never ceases to amaze how wrong you can be. Raiders do the precise opposite; avoiding overhealing whenever possible. Virtually every healer guide worth reading advocates less overhealing, which is why Regen ticks are valued. Tanks never use their own self-heals in optimal scenarios. In fact, the Warrior rotation burns Equilibrium on pull to generate more enmity. A good group will never see that Warrior turn on Defiance again, thus never will they touch Equilibrium. Likewise, aggro isn't an issue because Shirk and Diversion have trivialized it. Only in Ultimate does White Mage start to threaten tank enmity because of how frequent you'll use Cure III.

    Why you continuously speak about raiders when you have no concept or experience raiding baffles me. You have no idea how to heal nor have any business discussing how raiders play. You aren't one. Healer DPS is so ubiquitous in this game because it's laughably easy otherwise. Content simply does not demand constant healing outside of Ultimate. I have purposely done heal only runs on specific content. I am 100% useless due to how little the outgoing damage is.
    I have legitimately never seen somebody so aggressive in defense of their own ignorance before.

    Kisai posts paragraphs upon paragraphs of objective, flat out lies. And when called out on it she just doubles down on how toxic and evil the raiding playerbase is.

    Oh well. We live in a post fact world already anyway. What's one more to the pile?
    (8)

  2. #92
    Player
    Selvokaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Reiya Rahamos
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    To be honest, I didn't like the idea of healers HAVING to dps while they heal, when the other two roles do dps automatically while doing their roles. It seemed like a unfair burden, and I heard people saying that the producer intended for the healers to just focus on healing, and in a way I still feel that should always be the case. Then of course I heard the other roles saying things like, "If you're just standing there throw out a attack spell" or "Healer we need you to dps or we won't clear." then the changes to healer roles damage came about, and I knew then that yeah, they want us to dps and heal, I don't like it, one of the three roles should feel like the relaxed but focused role, but apparently it's not meant to be the healer.

    Overall, I've learned to accept it, though it does cause the healer more stress than I think the other two roles. I used to be poor tanks and their forced leadership role, but at least that's all they had to worry about, now im more like, "poor healers, we gotta dps and heal despite neither being woven directly into anyone set of our abilities." and yes im aware AST and WHM both have at least one ability that heals and damages though their uses limited.

    The next healer job should be a job where you can dps and heal simultaneously throughout a instance, like every time you attack a enemy a small portion of that damage is also healing that goes to the person with the most hp missing, and it could have big heals that happen when you do big hits, and aoe healing when you use a aoe attack. And the single or group specific heals are the ones on CD's, of course this healer would likely become the most sought after healer since its bringing the dps more so than the others and also healing at the same time, but hey fairs fair stress diversity.
    (0)
    Last edited by Selvokaz; 07-12-2018 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #93
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    169
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvokaz View Post
    Then of course I heard the other roles saying things like, "If you're just standing there throw out a attack spell" or "Healer we need you to dps or we won't clear."
    Those are two completely different issues. One is valid, one is not.

    "If you're just standing there throw out a attack spell" is a valid statement. That comment isn't about DPS specifically. It's about the fact that ANYTHING is better than standing around doing nothing, and until and unless SE invents some new healer gimmick, DPS is the only other option there.

    "Healer we need you to dps or we won't clear" on the other hand is a problem. SE doesn't design fights around healer DPS (or so they claim) but DPS is DPS. When you're on the cutting edge of progression and any small amount of DPS could make or break a fight, you use what you have even if it's not ideal. I'm not sure that SE can really prevent or stop that though. I suppose they could design fights where the healing requirements are so tight that DPS is impossible, but that would be even MORE stressful for the healers. There's no win scenario on this one.
    (3)

  4. #94
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    894
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    I hate it. I like being active in fights. But I want my skills to be focused around support. That's why I chose this role. I want to be buffing, damage shielding, healing, debuffing, whatever you can think of besides just plain attacking to stay busy.
    (2)

  5. #95
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    894
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki View Post
    I appreciate all your answers to my question!

    Honestly I just don't get how specifically getting HP bars up is more interesting than making different hp bars go down. It boggles my mind that people feel this way but I do appreciate the attempts at explaining it. You humored me and that's cool.
    It's the satisfaction that you feel from fulfilling your role. For many of us, healer means supporting the party in non-combative ways. This could be healing wounds, buffing stats, various forms of shielding, or even debuffing enemies. The dps side is the second class citizen in our kingdom of healing. We dislike tapping into this role just to fill dead areas. So our satisfaction level is much greater when we feel we are doing the job we signed up to do.
    (3)

  6. #96
    Player
    Lynesse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Leona Valesti
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki View Post
    I appreciate all your answers to my question!

    Honestly I just don't get how specifically getting HP bars up is more interesting than making different hp bars go down. It boggles my mind that people feel this way but I do appreciate the attempts at explaining it. You humored me and that's cool.
    I heal because I like to PVP mid-dungeon.
    (0)

  7. #97
    Player
    Tweets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2
    Character
    N'peckhi Kurah'a
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 60
    DPSing as a Healer is boring. I hate it.

    And that's not because it's "not my job" or anything.

    In Heavensward I loved tracking 4-5 DoTs and weaving them between Broils, but in Stormblood they homogenised it all by reducing the number - 2 for WHM/SCH, and a laughable 1 for AST.

    DPSing as a Healer is boring and I hate it because the developers refuse to allow me to enjoy it. In simplifying it for accessibility they also axed what little enjoyment of it there was, reducing it to 2 DoTs and a spam skill that you spend 90% of your time hammering.

    They sorely need to add some more engagement to the classes - be it through engaging healing mechanics, engaging DPS mechanics or engaging buff/debuff mechanics - because right now playing a Healer is simultaneously one of the most difficult and most boring jobs.
    (2)

  8. #98
    Player
    Lynesse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Leona Valesti
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tweets View Post
    snip
    I didn't heal in HW, but I agree with the crux of what you're saying. I've never played SCH, either, so I wouldn't know about maintaining 4-5 DoTs, but I did play WHM a ton at the start of Stormblood, and for the sake of adding balance to the discussion, I would say the HW WHM DPS rotation does not sound appealing to me.

    I'm neutral on Cleric Stance. I know when it's safe to DPS, and it wouldn't affect my gameplay either way.

    But Fluid Aura's wonky knockback mechanics sound annoying, and Aero I is just one more thing to keep track of.

    For WHM, it results in more button presses but not necessarily more depth.

    I think WHM is moving in the correct direction, especially with the changes to Divine Benison. I think AST is the most well-designed healer I've ever played in an MMO.

    I have fun spamming Gravity. It's a signal to the team. It tells the tank that he/she is doing well. It tells the DPS that their positioning is good. And it tells everyone that I've done my job properly too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    I hate it. I like being active in fights. But I want my skills to be focused around support. That's why I chose this role. I want to be buffing, damage shielding, healing, debuffing, whatever you can think of besides just plain attacking to stay busy.
    I very much agree with this.

    A lot of FFXIV's mechanics involve merely dodging AoEs. We don't need skills for that.

    If mechanics existed that required healer skills -- Rescuing someone from an otherwise deadly AoE, shielding the party from potentially fatal knockbacks, or keeping track of buffs/debuffs in order to stabilize incoming damage -- things might be more interesting.

    That said, I'm happy with the way the game plays currently.
    (0)

  9. #99
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    169
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynesse View Post
    A lot of FFXIV's mechanics involve merely dodging AoEs. We don't need skills for that.

    If mechanics existed that required healer skills -- Rescuing someone from an otherwise deadly AoE, shielding the party from potentially fatal knockbacks, or keeping track of buffs/debuffs in order to stabilize incoming damage -- things might be more interesting.
    More interesting for you, but what about everyone else?

    Not all mechanics affect everyone equally. Tank busters are uninteresting to a DPS, adds are uninteresting to a healer, cureable status effects are ONLY interesting to healer, etc. Movement and dodging are the great equalizers. They affect everyone so it's an easy way to make a single mechanic engaging the entire group.
    (0)

  10. #100
    Player
    Alisi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    629
    Character
    Tempest Deep
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaxia View Post
    is healer DPS actually enjoyable in its own right? Is it something healers generally like doing, or feel compelled to?
    It isn't something I enjoy. I want to heal with my healers. I feel compelled to DPS both out of expectation and boredom. I came from WoW where healers heal 98% of the time (outside of Disc Priests.) I realize the absurdly long GCD in this game makes that sort of thing impossible though. We'll never get the kind of raidwide dmg that ramps up, we'll never get a HoT healing class, we'll never go 100% healing in raids, so I deal with it. =/
    (2)

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