So about Summoner...

[Dualgunner]

That’s because I don’t have all of that information, so I’d rather not jump to conclusions when I only have information from a 3rd party website that doesn’t factor in any of that information instead of assuming RDM is getting curbstomped.

I'm pointing out that, when you don't have all the information, parroting people who sound like they know what they're talking about is just as bad--if not worse--than looking at whatever quantified information we have is, even if it's incomplete.

Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to find out if Smn truly is dominating then make a decision form there. Find some sort of way to contact these groups and inquire, or even just ask in general for those clears in savage.

Sure. In the end though, you'd have to pull it all into data, and then you'd still have people calling your data incomplete. It would be best if we had access to Square Enix's own logs.

[EllieShadeflare]

If anything, I would prefer that SE stops being scared of people potentially judging a pure damage job as "overpowered" and go whole hog with damage. Maybe 300 base potency Fire IVs are needed after all, even though I've been one of those sorts that have been against the idea since the start, preferring an improvement to Umbral Hearts. But this thread is about SMN, so I'm gonna try to remain focused on SMN for the rest of this.

Raise and Verraise are overvalued when you're not considering prog, since they don't add much and can still hurt a party to rely on it just as much as it helps them push forward. In dungeons, special Duties and in (most) 24-man raids, certainly, Verraise is a great support option that can keep players going. But even IN progging Savage will a party be boned if they rez too much. Rezzing too often will often reduce classes to the point that they can't get past DPS checks, and it's not a very pleasant sight to behold. If we could get past the idea that Raises are powerful enough to be deciding matters of balance, that would be wonderful.

That saaaaid. If SE is too cowardly to buff pure DPS jobs to where they ought to be by comparison, Summoner could easily receive a nerf... to its damage. Improve upon the buffing abilities of Devotion and Radiant Shield/Contagion, and you will find a job that matches BLM after the utility is said and done. And you know what? If Summoner's utility makes it match BLM's full damage in terms of contribution, that's okay. That just means that it'd still be a powerful job, just not the over-efficient job it is now. It'd allow Black Mages some breathing room and a chance to join in. Heck, I'd even be fine if SMN kept their AoE god status, since that'd be a niche they could do well.

[Maero]

Another thing that should be mentioned is that, I believe it’s fine if you want to ask for buffs to make RDM a meta option, nothing wrong with people wanting their mains to be the best. I know many players who stick with a job in its lows and watched as some of those jobs even became meta options. PLD/SMN since HW. Lets be patient and see what the future has, SMN is meta today but tomorrow it could be RDM or, BLM or, SMN can continue to reign supreme. Alternatively, none of them could be meta and it wouldn't be the first time.

Why should we be patient? We are far enough into the expansion and SE have enough data by now to at least look at the job instead of just making changes/buffs to every other job. Some jobs have seen multiple changes

[Deusteele]

Dear SquarEnix; nerf Rock, Paper's fine.
-Sincerely Scissors

[Shiroe]

smn is in a fine spot, .. rdm and blm could use help

but Blm wont get help, a class with personal high (highest) dps, wont get a full meta spot (or it will become the most / overused dps)

Rdm is already the most used / best class in all contents, aside of only (speed) kill and farm parties, ... cant give such a class a secure meta spot too (or again, will become overused..., especially since its easy to use)

that said, Rdm could still use a slight dps or embolden buff

[Sunako]

Damage is not really problem with BLM. BLM can do like 700 more dps on dummy than SMN. Problem is that BLM not have any party synergy, majority of players can not keep their uptime on 100% and they lack party utility.

Edit: My idea would be let BLM stack more than 1 foul(like 3 fouls) and make it instant cast. That would help both casual players and hardcore players. You could save the bursts for party utility like trick attack, it would be easier save aoe damage for add phase and would boost mobility + easier weave ogcds. Another thing blm need imo is 1 foul stack before match start. BLM opener is really lackluster because they have to wait first 30 sec before foul is ready and at that point all opener buffs are already gone. I think there should be the way gain 1 foul stack before match start. Utility would be if manaward would be aoe shield that absorb like 15% damage from partymembers and 30% self.

I find it funny they actually execute part of my idea, that I suggest year ago. You can stack 2 fouls and new alternative "singletarget foul" become instant cast.