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  1. #1
    Player
    JackHatchet's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    527
    Character
    Naus Prime
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90

    Why graphical mods are bad for PvP.

    With all the talk about mods lately I wanted to chip in some other situations where they DO impact gameplay.


    The important thing to remember is that mods do two basic things. They can change a specific model into another model. And they can change the texture of such models. An example of this in play with nude mods is that they can change the player model from the default to one with altered shapes to include nipples and male appendages. The other change is that it changes the texture of the player from being a barbie doll to a more mature theme.

    So while nude mods don't affect others, I wanted to address exactly why modding can be used to actually affect others in PvP or other competitive areas.

    ------------------

    First off, changing models isn't just limited to players. It can change models of anything in the game. A good example I've seen in other games is changing the models of PvP flags. Think you're hiding behind a wall? Not if your model is 2X bigger and your ass is poking through--revealing your location. Wondering where the healers are? Easy-peasey. They're the players with the big arrows sticking out of their heads. And while changing a model doesn't impact player collision or hit-boxes--it does significantly change how easy it is to detect hidden players or find critically important objects that may be harder to find.

    Secondly, the ability to change textures can also wreak havoc on PvP (and also PVE). Imagine someone hiding in a bush wearing camouflage? Now they're neon-green. Imagine a raid boss with AoE mechanics? Now all the 'safe spots' can be displayed on the ground floor. The floor texture has been altered to be a handy-dandy guide to safety. Or, the most dangerous of all. Imagine being able to make walls invisible. Now no one can sneak behind walls or cliffs or corridors. X-ray vision. See someone naked--see them behind walls.

    These are just a few examples of why graphical mods can wreak havoc on a PvP game, but not all of the possibilities. And often 'these' are the reasons why companies prohibit them as against the ToS as opposed to being prudes against nude mods.

    At the moment the game is in a 'safe' spot as long as modders don't try and influence PvE content with their mods. And as long as Square-Enix never does anything super competitive with PvP. But uh. I'm so tired of people saying "oh mods are great, because they ONLY make character's naked. It's such an ignorant statement that I felt required to post this, if only to show that modding isn't 'just' about nudity.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    kamenkuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    148
    Character
    Kamen Breaker
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Think you're hiding behind a wall? Not if your model is 2X bigger and your ass is poking through--revealing your location
    In pvp you can't do anything to anyone behind a wall. And if you're watching around the corner you can bail before they get to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Wondering where the healers are? Easy-peasey. They're the players with the big arrows sticking out of their heads.
    We can already mark healers. People already do that. You can't pvp without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Imagine someone hiding in a bush wearing camouflage? Now they're neon-green.
    You would see their name. The character model disappears from the game when you're hiding as a NIN as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Imagine a raid boss with AoE mechanics? Now all the 'safe spots' can be displayed on the ground floor. The floor texture has been altered to be a handy-dandy guide to safety.
    You mean markers? We have markers.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Imagine being able to make walls invisible. Now no one can sneak behind walls or cliffs or corridors. X-ray vision. See someone naked--see them behind walls.
    That would be a bad hack because you'd run into people ducking behind cover and you'd be attacking without realizing you can't hit them
    (49)

  3. #3
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,445
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    This is definitely a more interesting and better thought out subject than the prior thread. I do indeed remember people modding player models in WoW to have huge spikes come out of them for PvP and even the good old FFXI trick of removing monster models to make yourself unable to target them making claims that little bit easier and quicker.

    For the most part, FFXIV's core design renders this sort of stuff redundant though.

    As far as PvP goes, the above has the gist of it really, marking players in PvP legitimately achieves what the spikes would have done back in the day and levels the playing field there, as well as making modding away walls such rather pointless. Half the time you can tab target around walls and corners with some camera play too, a good example of this is being able to tab target the boss in savage turns whilst the barrier is still up, just zoom right out and turn the camera 30 degrees or so to the side.

    For PvE, again, waymarks and various guides already offer a handy dandy guide of where to stand.

    About the only question mark in my eyes is changing the collision mapping, but then bots have been doing that for years already.
    (1)
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

  4. #4
    Player
    JackHatchet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    527
    Character
    Naus Prime
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    I know a lot of the PvP stuff doesn't directly apply to FFXIV, but rather to FPS style games. I was just throwing out examples that mods do so much more than just make people naked. As long as FFXIV is the casual MMO I don't think anyone will really care enough to change anything. I was just frustrated with all the people being so anal about mods "only" doing nudity stuff when that's clearly not the case. My post isn't an argument for or against mods. Just pointing out that it's a much broader subject then just nudity. Thanks again everyone for keeping it civil.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,467
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    First off, changing models isn't just limited to players. It can change models of anything in the game. A good example I've seen in other games is changing the models of PvP flags. Think you're hiding behind a wall? Not if your model is 2X bigger and your ass is poking through--revealing your location. Wondering where the healers are? Easy-peasey. They're the players with the big arrows sticking out of their heads. And while changing a model doesn't impact player collision or hit-boxes--it does significantly change how easy it is to detect hidden players or find critically important objects that may be harder to find.

    Secondly, the ability to change textures can also wreak havoc on PvP (and also PVE). Imagine someone hiding in a bush wearing camouflage? Now they're neon-green. Imagine a raid boss with AoE mechanics? Now all the 'safe spots' can be displayed on the ground floor. The floor texture has been altered to be a handy-dandy guide to safety. Or, the most dangerous of all. Imagine being able to make walls invisible. Now no one can sneak behind walls or cliffs or corridors. X-ray vision. See someone naked--see them behind walls.
    Unless you change the ACTUAL size, it's hardly an advantage. And graphical mods would be client side, you don't see your gear all bright pink even if someone replaced all their textures on their end.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    JackHatchet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    527
    Character
    Naus Prime
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard View Post
    Unless you change the ACTUAL size, it's hardly an advantage. And graphical mods would be client side, you don't see your gear all bright pink even if someone replaced all their textures on their end.
    Yeah, but if you were a sniper in a FPS game and you relied on being hidden, knowing that someone out there could alter your character to be bright green would heavily reduce your chances of staying hidden. Again, that's a FPS game and not FFXIV, but it's an example. Just because you don't look green on your screen doesn't mean your enemy can't use that to their advantage.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    SilverObi's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,027
    Character
    Kissa Kotele
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Now THIS is the type of fear-mongering I like to see!
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    1,467
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by JackHatchet View Post
    Yeah, but if you were a sniper in a FPS game and you relied on being hidden, knowing that someone out there could alter your character to be bright green would heavily reduce your chances of staying hidden. Again, that's a FPS game and not FFXIV, but it's an example. Just because you don't look green on your screen doesn't mean your enemy can't use that to their advantage.
    In an FPS game, yes that would very much be an advantage...
    But this is not an FPS game, you generally wouldn't have a big name hovering over the sniper telling you they're there.

    As stated by kamenkuro, the only way to not have the class name sticking out there is to be a Ninja and use Hide.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Vexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sharlyan
    Posts
    1,290
    Character
    Rin Black
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Hrmn... maybe edit the title. "Why graphical mods are bad for PvP in Other Games."
    (20)

  10. #10
    Player
    Sove92's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    1,215
    Character
    Soveia Shadowsong
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Other tools already exist to cheat in PvP and you don't need to make the effort to mod your game to use them.
    (2)

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