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  1. #31
    Player
    KisaiTenshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,490
    Character
    Kisa Kisa
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 84
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    How did 1.0 bend White Mage towards nature when it neither had nor ever intended to have a White Mage? It had Conjurer, which... conjured from the elements, and the priest-like Thaumaturge which, per its namesake, worked miracles around light (astral) and dark (umbral), blood and magic.

    There is virtually no similarity whatsoever in design philosophy or vision between 1.0 and 1.2. You merely have the world chunkiest retcon as Yoshida takes over. 1.0 intended to be different, and was until --to borrow your word-- those shoe-horn revisions. As such I don't think the 1.0 basis carries any of that legacy; it merely points out that not all design teams necessarily wanted to follow it verbatim.
    The FFXIV 1.0 (not Yoshi-P) setup was different, players felt it wasn't a Final Fantasy. So the classic FF jobs were added, and the entire design philosophy was tossed.

    If 1.0 had continued it's course, it would have wound up more like Wizardy Online, with cross-classing specific skills that you want from that class. So if you want Cure on every class, you can have cure on every class. There's no direct connection between 1.0's design philosophy and previous FF games, and that's the point. "Holy" magic is the stuff of prayers of clerics, which is what the white mage is. "Destructive magic" is the stuff of black mage. V1.0 (look at the history of any V1.x page and go back to 1.0's release date)

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...)?oldid=945049

    Fire Deals fire damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Blizzard Deals ice damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Aero Deals wind damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Stone Deals earth damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Thunder Deals lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Water Deals water damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Cure Restores HP of allies within area of effect.
    Stoneskin Hardens the skin of allies within area of effect, absorbing a certain amount of damage.
    Repose Renders enemies within area of effect immobile. Does not affect moving targets.
    Shock Spikes Armors party members within area of effect with spikes of lightning, granting the ability to stun and deal lightning damage to attacking enemies.
    Burn Deals fire damage over time to and reduces fire magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Frost Deals ice damage over time to and reduces ice magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Choke Deals wind damage over time to and reduces wind magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Rasp Deals earth damage over time to and reduces earth magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Shock Deals lightning damage over time to and reduces lightning magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Drown Deals water damage over time to and reduces water magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Protect Enhances the defense of allies within area of effect.
    Shell Enhances the magic defense of allies within area of effect.
    Cure II Restores HP of allies within area of effect.
    Fire II Deals fire damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Blizzard II Deals ice damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Aero II Deals wind damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Stone II Deals earth damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Thunder II Deals lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Water II Deals water damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Paralyna Removes paralysis from party members within area of effect.
    Silena Removes silence from party members within area of effect.
    Sleep Induces slumber among enemies within area of effect.
    Burn II Deals fire damage over time to and reduces fire magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Frost II Deals ice damage over time to and reduces ice magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Choke II Deals wind damage over time to and reduces wind magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Rasp II Deals earth damage over time to and reduces earth magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Shock II Deals lightning damage over time to and reduces lightning magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Drown II Deals water damage over time to and reduces water magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Raise Revives a KO'd target.
    Reraise Revives target upon being KO'd.
    Shock Spikes II Armors party members within area of effect with spikes of lightning, granting the ability to stun and deal lightning damage to attacking enemies.
    Stoneskin II Hardens the skin of allies within area of effect, absorbing a certain amount of damage.
    Shock Spikes II Hardens the skin of allies within area of effect, absorbing a certain amount of damage.
    Tractor Pulls the body of a KO'd target toward the caster.
    Flare Deals massive fire damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Freeze Deals massive ice damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Tornado Deals massive wind damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Quake Deals massive earth damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Burst Deals massive lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Flood Deals massive water damage to enemies within area of effect.
    Cure III Restores HP of allies within area of effect.
    Protect II Enhances the defense of allies within area of effect.
    Shell II Enhances the magic defense of allies within area of effect.
    Protect II Enhances the defense of allies within area of effect.
    Now look at V1.0's Thaumaturge.
    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/T...e?oldid=945075
    Scourge Deals umbral damage to and reduces umbral magic defense of enemies within area of effect. Even subsequent castings of Scourge benefit from the scourge effect.
    Banish Deals astral damage to and reduces astral magic defense of enemies within area of effect. Even subsequent castings of Banish benefit from the banish effect.
    Sacrifice Heals a portion of HP and additional HP over time to party members within area of effect. Worth the HP spent, even when fighting solo.
    Poison Poisons enemies within area of effect.
    Gravity Reduces the movement speed of enemies within area of effect.
    Slow Slows the stamina regeneration of enemies within area of effect.
    Bio Deals umbral damage over time and reduces the attack power of enemies within area of effect.
    Dia Deals astral damage over time and reduces the defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Stygian Spikes Armors party members within area of effect with umbral spikes, granting the ability to absorb MP from attacking enemies.
    Absorb ACC Transfers a portion of the target's accuracy to you.
    Absorb ATK Transfers a portion of the target's attack power to you.
    Absorb DEF Transfers a portion of the target's defense to you.
    Absorb EVA Transfers a portion of the target's evasion to you.
    Siphon MP Transfers a portion of the target's MP to you.
    Sacrifice II Heals a portion of HP and additional HP over time to party members within area of effect.
    Scourge II Deals umbral damage to and reduces umbral magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Banish II Deals astral damage to and reduces astral magic defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Drain Transfers a portion of HP from enemies within area of effect to you.
    Bind Renders moving enemies within area of effect immobile. Does not affect non-moving targets.
    Paralyze Paralyzes enemies within area of effect.
    Silence Silences enemies within area of effect.
    Mass Fear Causes enemies within area of effect to flee in terror.
    Siphon TP Transfers a portion of the target's TP to you.
    Bio II Deals umbral damage over time and reduces the attack power of enemies within area of effect.
    Dia II Deals astral damage over time and reduces the defense of enemies within area of effect.
    Blind Reduces the accuracy of enemies within area of effect.
    Resurrect Revives a KO'd target.
    Soul Ward Revives target upon being KO'd.
    Stygian Spikes Armors party members within area of effect with umbral spikes, granting the ability to absorb MP from attacking enemies.
    Shadowsear Deals damage and increases your magic potency in proportion to the difference in HP between you and the target.
    Poison II Poisons enemies within area of effect.
    Siphon MP II Transfers a portion of the target's MP to you.
    Drain II Transfers a portion of HP from enemies within area of effect to you.
    Sacrifice III Heals a portion of HP and additional HP over time to party members within area of effect.
    Just looking at the names, the V1.0 Thaumaturge has all the stuff that a white mage had in previous FF games, and on top of that, has all the magic that was later given to Arcanist and Astrologian.

    Quite literately, the Thaumaturge is the farthest thing from a Black Mage in the present game.
    And that wiki site apparently spent a great deal of time noting down the info for CNJ and THM, but everything else is pretty sparse.

    What we have in the present game was the entire CNJ and THM design thrown away except for Cure on the Conjurer, the Thaumaturge gets half of the Conjurer's old dps skills, and the Arcanist got everything else. Whatever the Arcanist didn't get, was later revived and reused for Astrologian. It would be much fairer to say the Thaumaturge of V1.0 is the Astrologian in the present game.
    (0)
    Last edited by KisaiTenshi; 05-01-2018 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #32
    Player
    Aomine1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    829
    Character
    Daiki Sejuro
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Yea they need to go more so the route of stuff like banish and keep the stone and aero but I also agree with some people save the water spells for Geo or another healer class.
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,076
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi View Post
    The FFXIV 1.0 (not Yoshi-P) setup was different, players felt it wasn't a Final Fantasy. So the classic FF jobs were added, and the entire design philosophy was tossed.

    If 1.0 had continued it's course, it would have wound up more like Wizardy Online, with cross-classing specific skills that you want from that class. So if you want Cure on every class, you can have cure on every class. There's no direct connection between 1.0's design philosophy and previous FF games, and that's the point. "Holy" magic is the stuff of prayers of clerics, which is what the white mage is. "Destructive magic" is the stuff of black mage. V1.0 (look at the history of any V1.x page and go back to 1.0's release date)

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...)?oldid=945049



    Now look at V1.0's Thaumaturge.
    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/T...e?oldid=945075


    Just looking at the names, the V1.0 Thaumaturge has all the stuff that a white mage had in previous FF games, and on top of that, has all the magic that was later given to Arcanist and Astrologian.

    Quite literately, the Thaumaturge is the farthest thing from a Black Mage in the present game.
    And that wiki site apparently spent a great deal of time noting down the info for CNJ and THM, but everything else is pretty sparse.

    What we have in the present game was the entire CNJ and THM design thrown away except for Cure on the Conjurer, the Thaumaturge gets half of the Conjurer's old dps skills, and the Arcanist got everything else. Whatever the Arcanist didn't get, was later revived and reused for Astrologian. It would be much fairer to say the Thaumaturge of V1.0 is the Astrologian in the present game.
    Yep. Had the light/dark magics of a traditional SCH, had much of the functionality frequently limited to a WHM, and the massive bank of debuffs given to some of the series' colored magics (Green, etc.; anything but White and Black) or BLM in certain iterations. And those are about as close as it gets to anything remotely BLM-ish... /sigh

    Abilities for the other classes. Some damage type changes since Beta, which had more non-elemental damage types (Sonic, Blood, etc.), iirc.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Whatever 1.0 intended, I much prefer the current elemental split between BLM and WHM.
    There are three clearly destructive energy, and three that are essentially the manipulation of natural matter.

    As for water, I've always felt that the Medica spells, or all of the HoTs for that matter, could have been tied to water.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    MartaDemireux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Hiraeth Petrichor
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    Whatever 1.0 intended, I much prefer the current elemental split between BLM and WHM.
    There are three clearly destructive energy, and three that are essentially the manipulation of natural matter.

    As for water, I've always felt that the Medica spells, or all of the HoTs for that matter, could have been tied to water.
    All heals in general probably could have but for some reason they decided to make them wind based.

    As for the Banish line, I see the appeal coming from XI myself, but this isn’t XI. They drew from other inspiration for this title such as III which gave WHM the Aero spells as well. Banish was only in XI to my knowledge (not counting 1.0 THM), and WHM historically learned Holy for its one light/holy element spell which is present here as well.

    I’d prefer to see Geomancers in control of all the elements as opposed to just 3, more aligned with how they are in most games. Would be possible to put elemental puddles down to alter some abilities elements and effects to mimic a terrain mechanic that wouldn’t be possible to balance here.
    (0)
    Last edited by MartaDemireux; 05-19-2018 at 01:39 AM.

  6. #36
    Player
    basketofseals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    815
    Character
    Verrine Mercer
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by MartaDemireux View Post
    All heals in general probably could have but for some reason they decided to make them wind based.As for the Banish line, I see the appeal coming from XI myself, but this isn’t XI. They drew from other inspiration for this title such as III which gave WHM the Aero spells as well. Banish was only in XI to my knowledge (not counting 1.0 THM), and WHM historically learned Holy for its one light/holy element spell which is present here as well.
    Banish actually exists currently in FFXIV. It's monster only though at the moment. Gimme a second and I'll see if I can find it.

    Edit: here it is

    (0)
    Last edited by basketofseals; 05-19-2018 at 04:18 AM.

  7. #37
    Player
    MartaDemireux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Hiraeth Petrichor
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by basketofseals View Post
    Banish actually exists currently in FFXIV. It's monster only though at the moment. Gimme a second and I'll see if I can find it.

    Edit: here it is
    Right it’s present in many FFs as enemy skills, I was referring to player skills.
    (0)

  8. #38
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    5,598
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MartaDemireux View Post
    Fluid Aura is the one, no-doubt-about-it water spell for WHM and is extremely rarely used. I personally only use it in Eureka or if there is a stray caster on a group pull to push it where it belongs. The second reason is why its use (with no element attached and a new name/animation) would make for a better Role Ability (all healers should be able to knock a stray back to the group).
    Agreed! I like that WHM with Rescue can draw in an ally, and with Fluid Aura, push an enemy away and also bind them. It's a very godly feeling. It would be great if the other two healers had knockback abilities as well. It could easily replace Break as a role skill. Though WHMs might gripe that yet another ability was taken from them and placed in the RS list. Might be better to give SCH and AST their own versions of knockback abilities.
    (0)


    How I came to be by the side of the chosen, and the moments we've sewn.
    This soul. Its attachment to all living things. The love they have known.
    Oh Warrior of light if only you could hear,
    just how closely I hold you dear.

  9. #39
    Player
    MartaDemireux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Hiraeth Petrichor
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemina View Post
    It could easily replace Break as a role skill. Though WHMs might gripe that yet another ability was taken from them and placed in the RS list. Might be better to give SCH and AST their own versions of knockback abilities.
    It could even be combined with Break if they do a priority list of effects. Knocback+Bind by default, Heavy if enemy is immune to knockback. As for the last bit, I definitely think it should be role, primarily because SCH and AST have a lot more button bloat than WHM. It is too bad hat WHM lost abilities to the role slot but it’s understandable when they’re the core healers that some of those abilities had to be shared for button space. If only they were given an additional water spell or two to offset that loss... haha. I do miss the theme of Leeches on SCH and Stella on AST though, maybe they can come back with varrying effects some day.
    (1)

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