The fact DRK hasn't been fixed in 10 months is disgraceful.

[RBlackshield]

I keep seeing complaint threads about how Dark Knight is so much weaker than the other two tanks but I don't see any actual numbers. If I go to reddit or discord though, I see people saying that the only thing wrong with dark is that a lot of people that play it are bad and they provide numbers to back it up. Seems more and more like it's just a PEBKAC issue.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

I keep seeing complaint threads about how Dark Knight is so much weaker than the other two tanks but I don't see any actual numbers. If I go to reddit or discord though, I see people saying that the only thing wrong with dark is that a lot of people that play it are bad and they provide numbers to back it up. Seems more and more like it's just a PEBKAC issue.

Once again, someone is not looking at the real issue. Yes, people who have done the numbers have found there's not issues with it in terms of mitigation and damage. It is a very capable tank at 70. The problem is that Dark Knight, as a whole, requires far more resources and effort to gain the same results as the other tanks. It's a balance issue, one that should have been looked into a long time ago. Incoming damage and outgoing damage aren't a problem, but the ease of use and the lack of any reward or specialty is an issue that simply shouldn't have been ignored.

Furthermore, they took a lot from Dark Knight in 4.0 and implemented a single action to make up the difference, an action that should have more or less been introduced at 61; if not earlier, rather than at 70 as it is that pivotal to Dark Knight's performance.

The whole design of Dark Knight in 4.0 is just.... flawed. We lost a lot and gained little in return, things were shared with other jobs, but we got nothing from them. It's a balancing nightmare. Warrior got a superior version of Plunge, Reprisal and Low Blow were taken from us; being excellent damage tools, and had their damage potencies removed in the process; as weel as Low Blows which alone made up for a decent chunk of damage (might I mention that SHIELD SWIPE PROCS still exist for PLD despite the fact we lost our trait and the action associated), we lost the damage from Scourge, Low Blow, Delirium and Reprisal and what we got in return was a Fell Cleave replacement and a shield only usable at cap. That's a problem as we had Dark Dance and Shadow Skin taken from us, leaving a massive hole in our mitigation capabilities pre-70, Dark Mind was nerfed, they nerfed Unleash to into irrelevancy and our MP costs were homogenized to excessive degrees.

Dark Knight is a job riddled with bad design choices. Dark Arts is a skill with a long animation that can't be interrupted, yet they expect us to spam it every other GCD, Dark Arts effects are also nothing but "more damage," it's not a unique skill in implementation, as it just boosts numbers... which is fine in concept, but in application it leads to a very boring and uncompelling rotation. Dark Knight needs help to be a more cohesive and fluid job, as the playstyle now is spammy, and just... disjointed at times.

[Zerathor]

I keep seeing complaint threads about how Dark Knight is so much weaker than the other two tanks but I don't see any actual numbers. If I go to reddit or discord though, I see people saying that the only thing wrong with dark is that a lot of people that play it are bad and they provide numbers to back it up. Seems more and more like it's just a PEBKAC issue.

look at logs. average higher tier drk vs average higher tier pld/war is about 200-300 dps lower.
Personally, I think they should apply some kind of magic vuln up, and let caster dps comps be more competitive, and their contribution to their damage would make up for their personal lack. like soul eater applies a 2% vuln for 15 seconds or something. that'd kill 2 birds with one stone

[Tegernako]

of course there is! i am paying my sub, so i am entitled to get the same attention like WAR. or do WARs pay more monthly? :O

Wouldn't be a DRK thread without resorting to this.

TIL asking for a class that has had issues since the expansion release to be fixed is entitled.

You're right, it is not entitled to ask for it, but let's be honest most of you all aren't being constructive.

That's not a valid argument for leaving DRK with its current issues for so long. They should not be waiting for such a long time to fix/balance a job.

While I'm not sure what the good waiting period of time is considered to be in an MMO for class changes I do again agree with this to an extent and always have.

The thing is, this should apply to everyone. Not just one job. No one should be called entitled for wanting their likes to be better. I mean it sucks to have to deal with people calling you entitled for wanting changes to your job though right?

DRK isn't terrible, it could just be better. Just like how WAR could be better. Or PLD.

It's my second main, I want it to be better.

[AppleJinx]

A drk knight thread and all people wants to talk about is the leveling process like??? You spent maybe a week tops leveling a job over the span of an expansion that'll last at least two years so that's literally less than 1% of the time spent on leveling, but sure let's ask the devs to spend time balancing around a process that takes comparatively no time at all for the people who just want to max out this job and be done with it until the next expansion comes out instead of using that time to look at how drk performs in relevant content.

While drk does currently take the most thought to play out of the three tanks, it is by no means hard or complicated and here are the reasons why

[shao32]

snip

while one of the biggest problems of DRK is yes leveling proces the other big problem is the job is underperforming compared to the other 2 in everything, yes is just a small diference but its not fun being worse in everything, plus our entire kit looks and feels bad compared to the other 2 bcs looks like whe have the worse versions of everything too on that, shadow wall, living dead, plunge, TBN as a raid utility, dark passenger and grit, for no mention how sad is use blood price and dark mind being a dps waste use it at maximun potency plus double weaving.

DRK need a rework specially for that and being balance as devs logic lower utility=better personal dps, leveling performance is just side effect of what they do to us this expansion, they just remove tools without thinking really how will affect the job until you get TBN.

[Deceptus]

Once again, someone is not looking at the real issue. Yes, people who have done the numbers have found there's not issues with it in terms of mitigation and damage. It is a very capable tank at 70. The problem is that Dark Knight, as a whole, requires far more resources and effort to gain the same results as the other tanks. It's a balance issue, one that should have been looked into a long time ago.

Agree, it's junk for balanced before it get's it's amazing, class defining ability.

[Lambdafish]

PLD had it far worse in Heavensward and wasn't fixed until 4.0 (so 2 years), and nobody cares. I want DRK changes too but its hardly "disgraceful".

What bugs me about DRK is that WAR got an overhaul before it, nothing else. DRK being weak and changes taking time is fine, I'd rather them spend an extended amount of time out of the public eye making sure it is right than rush something out of the door in 3 months that doesn't actually fix anything (which the forums, and likely YOU would complain about).

Seems more and more like it's just a PEBKAC issue.

No, its the same problem that MCH had at the beginning of heavensward. It was much harder to produce an equivilent output than other jobs, possible yes, but took an unnecessary amount of effort

[Capn_Goggles]

DRK has to work harder to get the same mileage out of their kits as a PLD or a WAR, and at that they still come up short (again, only slightly) in every single category. TBN for the all the stuff it lost in the transition to 4.0 isn't a good trade, and if you ask me it's just as overall toxic to DRK's kit the same way the old version of inner release was, minus any sort of compelling payoff beyond not dying, which is something every tank is more than capable of doing. DRK's kit is incredibly lopsided from both an offensive and defensive perspective, and it suffers from a complete lack of cohesion and some annoying problems that have largely always existed in the background of the class that are only now under the scrutiny they deserve.

It's not unreasonable for DRK players to want out of their preferred job what Warrior players and Paladin players got out of theirs: a coherent, functional kit that demonstrates its design intent in execution.

[Saeno]

PLD had it far worse in Heavensward and wasn't fixed until 4.0 (so 2 years), and nobody cares..

Im pretty sure many cared for PLD to be buffed in HW. Just about every thread in these forums during HW were about how insanely overpowered WAR was and how underpowered PLD was.