O5S PF groups doing the solo-tank strategy

[HyoMinPark]

If you are raid leading, or even in a steady static, yes. We're talking about PF pugs though. And in my opinion, a foolproof, safe and assured clear is far better than a faster one that might fizz and change into a wipe from a single mistake during an important mechanic.

Even in PUGs, though, uptime strats become the norm. For V4S, during Grand Cross Delta, uptime strat was always used; safe strat was barely used even in learning/clear parties. Because the norm is uptime. It best for people to learn how to deal with all strats, because they will vary between PUG groups, but learning the norm is the most important, in my opinion. Because, if you are actively pugging every week, you’re going to run into it, and you’re going to have to know how to deal with it/perform it.

Considering the importance this game places on DPS (since healing and tanking responsibilities are relatively easy to do, and do not require too much active management outside of healing through tankbusters/raid damage and establishing aggro/using Provoke+Shirk), I think it is prudent for people to learn how to do standard uptime strategies.

The strat being described in this thread has been used in every single V5S PUG group I have ever been in—they have never done the “safe strat” where both tank and healer drop their preys at the back of the arena. That’s why I think it’s important to learn how to do the strat, and, as I said before, it takes 1 GCD of adjustment on the part of the healer (shield healer, specifically), and that is using a GCD on Succor or Noct Aspected Helios as opposed to Broil II or Malefic III. The net gain of not having the tank lose 3-4 (or more) GCDs more than outweighs the exchange for a healer pressing 1 less DPS button.

If the adjustment was something mildly complicated that required active communication, then I could see your point. But it’s literally substituting a Broil II/Malefic III cast for an AOE shield spell instead. Healing up afterwards is also very simple (e.g., if your shield healer is a SCH, Indomitability is the perfect skill for that; Regen healer could use Medica II/Di Aspected Helios to tick up the remaining HP, and/or prep for Acid Rain; WHM could Assize+Medica II, etc.). It’s not as complicated as it seems; the benefits outweigh the consequences, in my opinion (i.e., lost damage on the part of the tank).

If the party is wiping repeatedly, it’s not the fault of the strat—it’s the fault of the healer failing to prepare for the mechanic; especially if this is not a learning party, but a weekly clear, in which everyone is expected to know how to perform their job in the content. And, again, the preparation is really simple. If the entire party wants to do the uptime strat, I’m sorry, but the healers are going to have to learn how to adjust, or make their own group advocating for the safe strat. But this is just my opinion.

[Sunspawn]

And yet every O5S pug I tried this week (got my first clear last week, kinda late for the party and apathetic besides) wiped at that exact mechanic multiple times in a row. It is clearly, to me at least, a strat that the general populace is simply incapable of executing reliably, just like casuals spouting meta which they do not understand and cannot come close to fulfilling.

Also, it's not solely the failure of healers, as I occasionally see tanks running about like headless chickens with the prey marker or dps standing too close, or even being completely oblivious, to the marker.

[Rathael]

I too have seen countless deaths in the group on meteor damage with PF groups. The tanks insist on placing the meteor in the corner because "it's the normal way". The only valid reason to argue this is to gain a total of 20 to 30 seconds of tank up-time assuming you see 3 meteors. This equates to between 5 and 8 seconds saved against the enrage timer total(not including any off-tank or healer DPS which would make it even less). This is absolutely nothing. DPS can easily make up for 5 seconds by not dying to mechanics (such as the meteor). When you're in a group that is picking up deaths to the meteor mechanic, it is not valid to just blame it on healers and argue that the tank up-time is going to make any difference at all.

I made the thread originally because I saw a healer doing this and completely lost my sanity. Their reason was because "It's the normal way". People don't seem to stop and think about if the "normal" way actually makes any sense.

This could hardly be considered an up-time strategy with the amount of damage it actually gains you. An up-time strategy would be having the group eat head-on together or the warrior skipping ghosts strategy. They gain a number of seconds of full party up-time and significantly reduce the pressure of the enrage timer.

[TaiyoShikasu]

Sounds like another party finder meme come to life. Even better when it happens in O5N because miniscule DPS > not killing your party members because how many parties of randoms communicate beyond "Hi," and "GG?"