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  1. #11
    Player
    Frizze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    993
    Character
    Frizze Steeleblaze
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Yes. Whenever possible you want one of your thunder spells on the target enemy. As Taika explains, the overall damage of the DoT is much higher then the initial hit would indicate. And at your level you have a trait called Thundercloud. Every 3 seconds when the DoT ticks you have a chance for the trait to proc. When it does, you get a free enhanced cast of either thunder spell. The thundercloud enhancement is instant cast, no mana cost, and it does the full damage of the DoT on the initial hit PLUS applying the normal DoT effect to the enemy. A thunder 3 cast via proc does close to or more damage then a fire 4(it depends on how long the DoT was on before you activated the free cast). When fighting one or two enemies you can individually DoT both of them with T1/3(the single target one you have), when fighting larger groups putting the AoE thunder(2/4) down in the middle of the pack is a fine way to spread the damage. You get the best potency-per-cast return by casting/reapplying your thunder DoT during your ice phase, but remembering to keep it going is almost always a good thing. Quick note: the AoE versions proc the thundercloud trait a lower percentage of the time then the single target ones do, but once you have a free cast you can use it on either version. Hope this helps.
    (2)

  2. #12
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,041
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Taika View Post
    So the total potency of Thunder is 270. Fire has potency of 180, so if Thunder is given enough time to tick, it will beat Fire in DPS (although Fire potency is increased under Astral Fire, I don't know by how much). Furthermore, Thunder damage increases with Thundercloud trait procs.
    We're primarily concerned with the potency changes that come from with Astral Fire III, which is a 1.8x multiplier, so let's call Fire
    a 324 potency spell. Fire IV is 504. Thunder III slowcast is 70+240 = 310, but has a 47%* chance to give you an instant cast 70+240+240 = 550; further, you can force the proc with Sharpcast. I don't have the Thunder II/IV maths off the top of my head but the idea is the same, just with a smaller chance but on more targets.



    * 10% chance to proc on first tick
    plus 90% chance it didn't proc on first tick × 10% chance to proc on second tick
    plus 90% chance it didn't proc on first tick × 90% chance it didn't proc on second tick × 10% chance to proc on third tick
    plus ... etc
    (1)
    Last edited by Rongway; 03-14-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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  3. #13
    Player
    Kuolemanlaakso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Eauflie Phuiceaux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 69
    I'm back again now, many thanks for all the help up to this point. I'm now level 60 (one quest from 61), i've been doing a lot of DoH/DoL which is why it's taken me so long, all of those will be over 50 once i've finished tomorrow's daily quests! Anyway, I just wanted to ask one thing. I know Fire IV is a random thing, I just wanted to ask, what triggers it? A specific Fire spell, or any? I know it has to be while under Astral Fire 3, and i'm fairly sure i've seen it because random spells have hit for much more than normal, but I can't say for sure what I did at that time to be certain. I've been using a rotation of Swiftcast, Blizzard III, Thunder III, Fire III, then Fire unless either Firestarter or Thundercloud procs, then switching to Blizzard again for Mana etc. Fire II for when it's relevant. Hoping this sounds sensible, i've got quite used to it now.
    (0)
    Last edited by Kuolemanlaakso; 04-04-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #14
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,041
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Fire IV is enabled by Enochian. Enochian, once activated, will last as long as you don't let Astral Fire / Umbral Ice fall off. It doesn't matter what tier of element buff you keep up for this purpose -- Transpose is enough to keep Enochian active forever.

    At Lv60, the basic basic rotation without extra cooldowns looks something like this:

    Blizzard III (enters Umbral Ice)
    Enochian
    Thunder III
    Blizzard IV (grants three Umbral Hearts*)
    Fire III (switches to Astral Fire)
    Fire IV (2 hearts remain)
    Fire IV (1 heart remains)
    Fire IV (0 hearts)
    Fire (refreshes Astral Fire)
    Fire IV
    Fire IV
    Fire IV
    Repeat from Blizzard III, skip Enochian because it will still be up as long as you haven't let your Fire/Ice buff fall off.




    * Umbral Hearts: normally, Fire spells cost double when you are in Astral Fire. Umbral Hearts waive the doubling. The Fire III after Blizzard IV doesn't cost any extra because you're not in Astral Fire yet. The first three fire spells after that will cost the base cost. The fourth fire spell through the last will cost double.

    It's useful to note that Fire and Fire IV cost the same, so if your spell speed isn't high enough for IV-IV-IV-I, you can do IV-IV-I-IV and it won't cost any extra for shuffling the 1s and 4s around. But you want to aim for higher spell speed so you can do IV-IV-IV- I -IV-IV-IV - BlizzardIII.
    (1)
    Last edited by Rongway; 04-04-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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  5. #15
    Player
    Frizze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    993
    Character
    Frizze Steeleblaze
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    What he said. Back on 3/11 when i said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frizze View Post
    The next steps on the learning curve should be the more advanced AoE rotation(one that uses flare effectively with good uptime), and the level 60+ single target rotation(adding the 4 tier spells in).
    ...this is the exact 60+ single target rotation i was thinking of. Its more complex then the level 50 rotation, and it adds a good amount more damage overall. Its still the core of the single target rotation that you use at level 70, so you want to get it down.
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player
    Kuolemanlaakso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Eauflie Phuiceaux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 69
    Ok, thanks to both. What's the recommended Spell Speed at level 60? Currently I have 585.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Frizze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    993
    Character
    Frizze Steeleblaze
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    That is a question id have a hard time answering. They re-balanced the sub-stats when they launched SB, so the numbers i used to have no longer produce the same results they used to. For a BLM, you cant go wrong with more. In general, we prioritize speed>>>crit>dh>>>>>det.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Hasrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,293
    Character
    Hashmael Lightswain
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Personal opinion, but, presumably, if you're not pushing raids or actual difficult content, you probably don't need to be very concerned about hitting particular thresholds.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,041
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasrat View Post
    Personal opinion, but, presumably, if you're not pushing raids or actual difficult content, you probably don't need to be very concerned about hitting particular thresholds.
    On the other hand, the more spell speed you have, the more freedom you have to improvise (dodge / shuffle spells) when you don't 100% know a particular boss's rotation yet, regardless of the level of content.
    (0)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  10. #20
    Player
    Kuolemanlaakso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Eauflie Phuiceaux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 69
    I've started rotating with Enochian and B4 and F4, there was 62 HQ gear selling on the market for next to nothing so I updated everything apart from necklace (those were quite expensive and the difference was negligable) - so she's now got all 62 gear and is up to 630ish Spell Speed. Before today I never really noticed it being quicker with upgrades, but today I can really feel the difference. It feels less sluggish, and also considering i'm DPS, i'd consider Spell Speed to be of paramount importance to providing DPS. It's a bit like people not understanding in games like Borderlands that reload speed is also DPS related, if you understand what I mean. I just didn't know what was best. I haven't melded materia into the new gear yet, but I will do tomorrow.
    (0)

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