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  1. #71
    Player
    Kallera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,978
    Character
    Etoile Kallera
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 70
    I don't see why they shouldn't ban the players that are at least using the exploit, the logs can easily prove just who exactly is initiating ungarmax in an improper setting. the pr about this having gone on for months is already going to be a thing, there needs to be action to show that the ToS entry on exploits actually means something.
    (5)

  2. #72
    Community Rep lakukisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    61
    Hello everyone!

    Yoshida-san has commented on the Ungarmax bug and about the emergency maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post

    This is Naoki Yoshida, Producer and Director of FFXIV.
    Allow me to provide updates on the current situation here.

    There is various other information on external websites that is causing confusion, but it was in fact late last night (Japanese time) that the development team – myself included – learned of this bug, in the same way as many others did.

    Regardless of how and why, at the same time as confirming the truth of what is written on the other websites, we consider this a highly urgent bug and made preparations to fix it promptly. That was what the Emergency Maintenance earlier was for. Apologies that the information as to why was delayed.

    The bug has been fixed, and the action is no longer usable in content other than what it is meant for.
    We are currently continuing to communicate with the NA and EU teams as there is an issue with time difference, but are proceeding accordingly to confirm the below points:
    • Whether or not the comment written on the external website reporting that "it was reported to the GM team four months ago" is true or not.
    • If it was, then why was the issue not reported accordingly back then.
    • Identify the amount of characters that are "assumed to have intentionally used" this action for incorrect means.

    The bug, that has now been fixed, could have occurred accidentally by the incorrect use of a macro that had been put in place for the standard use of the action in some exact conditions if they were met by chance. Therefore, we will be careful in our decision as to who used it deliberately.

    In order for the research into this to be done, keeping in mind the issue of time difference, we ask for your time and patience on this.

    We will be in touch upon gathering and summing up the necessary information, including what needs to be done going forward to prevent this issue occurring again.

    We sincerely apologize for this bug and the time taken to fix it.
    Thank you for your patience until we send the next notification on this matter.
    Best,
    Lakukisu
    (35)
    Daniela "lakukisu" Wnuk - EU Community Team

  3. #73
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,449
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Riardon View Post
    Having an unpatched exploit for a year doesn't give you the moral to start ban hammers just because a ToS says this or that. If anything SE should ban some interns for this first then should think about banning players.
    Ofc they won't do such a thing but it's beyond ridiculous to leave such exploits for such a long time unfixed.
    Most of the blame are on them.
    Interns don't prioritize what gets fixed and what doesn't. Managers do.

    Interns are who managers throw under the bus to cover up managerial incompetence.
    (18)

    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  4. #74
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,449
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Taika View Post
    On the other hand, this is exactly what they did with the Salvage dupes too. It had been used for over a year before they proceeded with the mass bannings. I'd much prefer another wave of those than sending out the message that exploits can be freely used if not fixed right away. Of course, the ideal situation would be to both fix the issue and punish the players involved asap.
    Again, the line is fuzzy, but I tend to find something like duping is a more obvious "this shouldn't work" than "I used a skill implemented in the game and it works." It's also pretty questionable business to ban a huge pile of your customers for using said in game skill outside of where you intended it to be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaire View Post
    And bans aren't the only way to address it. Previously they've just stripped gear and achievements relating to logs where it was used. That sends a much better message, not just to the people abusing things, but just as importantly to those that don't: You shouldn't have to feel pressured to use an exploit or fall behind because those that do will end up losing what they gained from it.
    Yeah, that makes the most sense to me.
    (3)

    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  5. #75
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,449
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by lakukisu View Post
    Whether or not the comment written on the external website reporting that "it was reported to the GM team four months ago" is true or not.
    If it was, then why was the issue not reported accordingly back then.
    Identify the amount of characters that are "assumed to have intentionally used" this action for incorrect means.

    The bug, that has now been fixed, could have occurred accidentally by the incorrect use of a macro that had been put in place for the standard use of the action in some exact conditions if they were met by chance. Therefore, we will be careful in our decision as to who used it deliberately.
    Good stuff, thanks for the update!
    (1)

    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  6. #76
    Player
    Taika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,127
    Character
    Evy Rain
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tridus View Post
    Again, the line is fuzzy, but I tend to find something like duping is a more obvious "this shouldn't work" than "I used a skill implemented in the game and it works." It's also pretty questionable business to ban a huge pile of your customers for using said in game skill outside of where you intended it to be used.
    Do you really think it would be possible for someone to genuinely think that using a 50% half-a-minute (extended) DPS buff (which has to be separately set for use in that content) for the whole party would be anything but unintended and cheating? I think that's pretty much as likely as players "accidentally" splitting into smaller parties and thinking "hey, they must have meant for it to be ok to do this and get more loot because we're so smart to figure this out!".

    They banned 1000 players for Salvage dupes, half of them permanent, I have no idea if the number in this case would be more or less. But from my personal perspective, it would hurt the company's reputation more to encourage cheating by leaving it unpunished.

    I'm glad for the Yoshi P comment and hope they'll continue to be open about how this will be handled, and try to send a message for the players that using exploits will not go unpunished.
    (9)
    Evy Rain from Phoenix

  7. #77
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,316
    Character
    Ilyana Neriskal
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if there are a ton of botters among the people who used the exploit, so I'm honestly hoping they'll be relentless with the ban hammer if they were clearly abusing it.

    I already suspect that the resident bot-farming with a side of raiding FC on my server was doing it, because they blew through Sigmascape Savage despite taking months to clear Deltascape Savage. Even terrible parties can get clears as long as they aren't having total wipes, because the sheer amount of leeway you get from the Ungarmax DPS boost means you can afford to rez people several times.
    (2)

  8. #78
    Player
    Alistaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,887
    Character
    Your Character
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by lakukisu View Post
    Yoshida-san has commented on the Ungarmax bug and about the emergency maintenance.
    Wow, that line about them investigating whether or not it was reported 4 months ago sounds like if it was, not only are players in trouble, but whoever "from the GM team" it was reported to that sat on it.

    ...and the whole thing definitely sounds like the official response when the ffxi salvage exploit was discovered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tridus View Post
    Again, the line is fuzzy, but I tend to find something like duping is a more obvious "this shouldn't work" than "I used a skill implemented in the game and it works."
    The line isn't that fuzzy. What you're saying is true, but not in any way that matters. If you had to make a top 10 list of most obvious exploits, yes, duping would be higher than using a skill outside its clearly-intended area. But this isn't a top 10 list, and there's no reason at all why "only the top x infraction types" should be taken seriously.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alistaire; 02-28-2018 at 09:53 PM.

  9. #79
    Player
    HaroldSaxon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Harold Saxon
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by lakukisu View Post
    Hello everyone!

    Yoshida-san has commented on the Ungarmax bug and about the emergency maintenance.



    Best,
    Lakukisu
    Thank you for posting the translation.

    To Yoshi-P - Can you apply the same punishments to those players who were caught using:
    1. The Ruin 4 Hack
    2. The Speed Hacks
    3. The Pomander Exploits
    4. Zoom Hacks

    I particular for the first item, an entire FC was using it. Its great that you are fixing the latest exploits, but there seems to be a massive disconnect between the development team and the rest of the game.

    Just look at the way classes are balanced and how feedback is only taken on if there is a large controversy. Be it with class balance or cheats and exploits.

    Can you please commit to greater communication with the community and punishment of those cheating in this game?
    (3)
    Last edited by HaroldSaxon; 02-28-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #80
    Player
    Fyce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,420
    Character
    Fyce Alvey
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaire View Post
    Wow, that line about them investigating whether or not it was reported 4 months ago sounds like if it was, not only are players in trouble, but whoever "from the GM team" it was reported to that sat on it.
    If you search for Ungarmax on the forums, you'll find absolutly nothing more than two days old posts.
    And on reddit, only one very small post of a twitch clip can be found. And that absolutly doesn't consitute a good bug report. At most, it's a "look at this person cheating". But nothing more.

    I have no idea why people say that it was reported 4 months ago. The very first acceptable report was done yesterday. (At least in english, that is.)

    If there's someone to blame, it's us, the community, for thinking that stuff get reported and fixed without us having to do anything.
    (9)
    Last edited by Fyce; 02-28-2018 at 10:11 PM.

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