Samurai and Red Mage

[Remedi]

I insist that we should insist to make casters and magical dmg better before we can really talk about balance of buff.
As long as physical buffs get a +2 thanks to the presence of tanks the balance will always be shifted to that side

(that is unless Yoshida starts adding mandatory caster LB3 everywhere lol)

[GhostZukin]

I don't mind as a Red Mage, being a utility DPS like Bard; the idea is fine, it's just I don't want our only utility to be quick rezzes. I would gladly trade a 60s cd for Verraise if it means we get some buffs on embolden to increase ALL damage by 10% without the decreasing effect.

[Shurrikhan]

Hm...that's their personal DPS though, too. Their embolden almost completely got eaten away by all the buffs that RDM was getting. That is, however, a really good speedkill, and I'll cede that in the upper 99th to 100th percentile, when Chad dies at just before the 7 minute mark, RDM can get near 6.7k DPS.

If the buffs received and given are roughly equal, that pDPS is also their rDPS, though. And it's a solid second place among the DPS. That's really not bad.

The larger worry to me is simply... what if there had been a second caster?

SMN receives rDPS benefits, potentially, from having casters (albeit at sacrifice to less windowed physical rDPS), while BLM doesn't care, and RDM... loses rDPS from there being another caster? That shouldn't be a thing, be it for RDM or Monk (or quite likely even DRG, in the other direction, though that comes down to a more specific damage type).

[Shiroe]

@Dualgunner

the only place rdm will be asked to go smn, are occasionally in speed kill Pfs .. or Pfs with general lacking Dps (hitting enragez), .. other than those occasional situations, Rdm get in PFs just fune in 99% of the time..

yes, brd does have a lot of utility,.. but Rdm has very unique (and sometimes very loved) utility...

giving Rdm a tick more dps can be fine, but making the jack of all trades more powefull (too powerfull) can make Rdm the most desirable dps of all for all content, pushing blm back in the dark ages (since blm is till not loved in most content other than farming or roulettes)

smn very desirable, more than Rdm in (farm) savage and ultimate content, but Rdm still is desirable there and Rdm is more desirable in other contents too.., its overall still well balanced..

[M1551NGN0]

@Dualgunner

the only place rdm will be asked to go smn, are occasionally in speed kill Pfs .. or Pfs with general lacking Dps (hitting enragez), .. other than those occasional situations, Rdm get in PFs just fune in 99% of the time..

And what if there's a SMN already, or the RDM doesn't have a 70 SMN? Or perhaps that they enjoy RDM more than SMN? (me)

yes, brd does have a lot of utility,.. but Rdm has very unique (and sometimes very loved) utility...

Verraise is incredibly overrated. It drains the RDM's mana a lot and can still lead to wipes because of weakness. Embolden has some (key word, SOME) use if the three other dps are physical attackers.

giving Rdm a tick more dps can be fine, but making the jack of all trades more powefull (too powerfull) can make Rdm the most desirable dps of all for all content, pushing blm back in the dark ages (since blm is till not loved in most content other than farming or roulettes)

smn very desirable, more than Rdm in (farm) savage and ultimate content, but Rdm still is desirable there and Rdm is more desirable in other contents too.., its overall still well balanced..

I am pretty sure Dual is not asking for RDM to be another SMN or to replace BLM. We just want to be viable after progression. I'm sorry, but if I'm doing ~5k dps in Tsukuyomi EX farms and hit the purple percentage, then something needs to get done.

[Maero]

Well yes some groups do have Red Mages but a majority of groups doing Savage do not and for many reasons.
Every other job except i guess Sam just bring so much more then Red Mage.
I cannot believe some still insist that Red Mage utility is such a great thing when it is nothing outside of progression

[Shiroe]

drg (himself and buffs others), sam & blm just bring "dps"..

nin, brd & mch bring real utility other than just "dps",

besides smn and rdm (rez)... and mnk (mantra)

looking at that, Rdm should have more deeps.. (close but not quite smn, mnk level??), .. maybe nin level (without TA)?