Lack of melee lately?

[Claire_Pendragon]

most "meta" raid groups go with 3 melee and 1 ranged, so all the left over casters and ranged are left to pug, with the melee who coudlnt make it to raid times.
as an example, i know more good melee players all in raid groups, doing all content together, than i know ranged/caster dps. but all the caster dps are always using pugs, and the few melee i know using pugs, arent doing their rotations right, and dont last long in raid groups.

The only reason my RDM is in a raid group, is due to a lack of good melee players being available. When I left my raid groups, they all said they loved me and all, but they really wished i played a melee instead, so I could put out better numbers, and or bring utility. (Non raiders like to think of RDM as the progression DPS, even though its useless to be rezzed up w/o resources, mid mechanic, not really learning anything, as ur no longer doing what you would be doing, in the real thing. essentially learning nothing, while the RDM does no DPS, being out of MP from the rezzes. SMN is far better for their utility, and rezzing once per lucid, is the only acceptable amounts of rezzing in a savage fight honestly.)

I usually act as a melee when our groups are missing a melee, and we pug another caster, but of course we still need at least 1 real melee for the LB.

[Azerhan]

Hmmm... Most of the time, when I see a meta group, is more like: DRG-NIN-BRD-MCH/SMN/RDM.
So 2/2.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Hmmm... Most of the time, when I see a meta group, is more like: DRG-NIN-BRD-MCH/SMN/RDM.
So 2/2.

Why would they have a RDM for meta? Heck, having a BRD in place of of SMN is still better. (Not that SMN isnt a decent option.)
RDM doesnt offer anything a SMN cant offer to a Meta group. Except SMN offers more mobility and DPS.

[Azerhan]

RDM is very constant in his own dps, but can't reach a high dps. For prog, RDM is quite good. This a part of the meta I guess.
You keep the BRD, but you can replace the MCH by a SMN for exemple.

[Claire_Pendragon]

RDM is very constant in his own dps, but can't reach a high dps. For prog, RDM is quite good. This a part of the meta I guess.
You keep the BRD, but you can replace the MCH by a SMN for exemple.

When people say Meta, they dont usually mean prog.
(Though as in this case, its obviously up for debate)
So I'll rephrase it to Speed running, as speed running uses the Meta tactics.

Also, MCH is more desired than BRD, and BRD more so than SMN for speed run/meta. (most groups dont use a MCH, not because it isnt the better option, but because its not as fun and too frustrating for most BRD players. The difference is small enough that a BRD can fit the spot of a MCH easily.)

The point of a meta group, is so that you can be MASSIVELY under item level, and get past dps checks at the start of the patch. And its dependent on the tier of savage, but on average, the meta groups clear easily, and say "there's no DPS check, and we were 10-20 item levels lower than the suggested minimum" almost every patch.
And yet, a normal set up, or those same people in a non meta group, will suddenly see enrage timers, and just assume everyone else must be doing terrible, rather than because of group composition.

A properly maximized group, can make up the difference in those item levels by quite a bit.
(That same amount of obsession over group comp, was also around in 3.0, and even still had to go up a few item levels, in order to clear DPS checks, which is why they are always surprised, because they assume that should be the standard for DPS checks, when those DPS checks were solely based on item level, grinding a few weeks 1st.)

[Sunako]

The point of a meta group, is so that you can be MASSIVELY under item level, and get past dps checks at the start of the patch. And its dependent on the tier of savage, but on average, the meta groups clear easily, and say "there's no DPS check, and we were 10-20 item levels lower than the suggested minimum" almost every patch.

Current content even Kefka is only ilvl 350 content and crafting gear is 350, if you pentameld that gear it is like worth of ilvl 360. I would say ppl that try world first are already over geared for current content. Point of meta is more likely you can clear the content even with 1 - 2 deaths or get fastest speed kills for the fflogs or parse runs in general.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Current content even Kefka is only ilvl 350 content and crafting gear is 350, if you pentameld that gear it is like worth of ilvl 360. I would say ppl that try world first are already over geared for current content. Point of meta is more likely you can clear the content even with 1 - 2 deaths or get fastest speed kills for the fflogs or parse runs in general.

Sometimes the gear is already crafted and up for use, and sometimes its not. They go in with what they had prior to the patch, and attempt the fight right away, and get the gear when the group isnt running it.
people cleared all of Alex with mostly i240 gear, and some i230 gear on the 1st day. They could have bought i250 crafted gear, but they didnt wait, their group was more than able to power through it with gear under the minimum.
And it might not be all floors, but at least the 1st 2, and half the time, the 3rd floor, is done this way with some groups. While I dont check if every group waits for crafted gear or just rushes in, I'm just saying it is done, and no matter what their iLv is, they're ready for it, and if they feel they are hitting a barrier, which they say has never been DPS issues, its almost always just how to deal with mechanics, they can buy the gear when they arent inside the instance.

[Azerhan]

Claire_Pendragon: agree with you.
Since I'ma main MCH that passed to main BRD, I've to say: yes, MCH is worst than ever now in term of fun, and that why I've stopped it.

[TaiyoShikasu]

I PF as a DRG and RDM and the other DPS is a range 75% out of the time I'd guess.

Maybe due to the SAM newness wearing off? Still see a lot of RDM though.

I don't know, I see them and monk more than anything. Did a Rabanastre run a little while ago and one alliance had three samurai. The alliance I was in had three ninja including myself which was the most I've ever seen in one place.

Agree on red mage, I see them quite often too.

[Brill_]

The point of a meta group, is so that you can be MASSIVELY under item level, and get past dps checks at the start of the patch. And its dependent on the tier of savage, but on average, the meta groups clear easily, and say "there's no DPS check, and we were 10-20 item levels lower than the suggested minimum" almost every patch.
And yet, a normal set up, or those same people in a non meta group, will suddenly see enrage timers, and just assume everyone else must be doing terrible, rather than because of group composition.

Player skill and team coordination had more to do with it than group comp. If it was simply group comp, then everyone would be clearing this stuff day 1. Team coordination to use each jobs strength to the max makes thgis happen. Average group that doesn't coordinate like that will not get the same results. Everyone starts thinking that the comp the world firsts use is the only comp that will work and thats just not true.

Who cleared new raids at 20 ilvls under the min ilvl? All the top raiders would've been 340 already and from what I've seen they were using crafted 350 gear.