STR/DEX/PIE/ATK Testing

[Seiken]

Well, I think when looking at ARC and the other melee classes as a whole, there has to be some balance. ARC already has ranged attacks (great to avoid Ifrit AoE, Moogle flare etc), and their combos do not require to hit the mob from any specific direction. Those two traits alone make ARC invaluable to a fight like the Moogle fight. Also, consider that ARC can prebuff one of it's strongest attacks, Barrage, and hold on to it for ~60 seconds. Then you consider the debuffs it adds. I think if they made ARC have higher damage potential as well, the class would be entirely overpowered. What would be the reason to play PUG, LNC, or MRD? GLA is already the "best" tank as far as I know, so what is the incentive to play the other classes? They can't debuff nearly as much, their combos are a complete pain to pull off on a moving target, and they are subject to being hit by way more AoE attacks. If the other classes don't do more damage per WS, then ARC is definitely overpowered in my opinion.

[Spider-Dan]

All of those points are fair arguments as to why ARC should be a worse DD than other DoW. But that's a separate argument; I'm not discussing whether or not ARC deserves to be hurt by the PIE/DEX reliance, but rather whether or not such a reliance is actually a disadvantage.

You can make the argument that ARC deserves to be disadvantaged by the DEX/PIE reliance (for various reasons), and that's fine. But first, do you acknowledge that it is a disadvantage?

[Arya]

Well, I think when looking at ARC and the other melee classes as a whole, there has to be some balance. ARC already has ranged attacks (great to avoid Ifrit AoE, Moogle flare etc), and their combos do not require to hit the mob from any specific direction. Those two traits alone make ARC invaluable to a fight like the Moogle fight. Also, consider that ARC can prebuff one of it's strongest attacks, Barrage, and hold on to it for ~60 seconds. Then you consider the debuffs it adds. I think if they made ARC have higher damage potential as well, the class would be entirely overpowered. What would be the reason to play PUG, LNC, or MRD? GLA is already the "best" tank as far as I know, so what is the incentive to play the other classes? They can't debuff nearly as much, their combos are a complete pain to pull off on a moving target, and they are subject to being hit by way more AoE attacks. If the other classes don't do more damage per WS, then ARC is definitely overpowered in my opinion.

ARC having ranged attacks is like saying Melee have point-blank attacks. It's not like ARC have ranged AND melee attacks.

As for the "don't have to stand on a particular side", that's true, but ARC's have to ensure they stand a fair distance away from a mob for a combo to activate. Too close (happens easily in fights where hate can bounce, or where mob just won't sit still) and the combo doesn't activate and TP use becomes less efficient, and too far and you aren't allowed to hit anything.

I have no interest in turning this into an ARC vs everything else thread - as has already been said, if that's your aim, start a new thread.

I agree with Spider-Dan (and other posters) in that the way attributes and their effects seem to have been doled out doesn't seem to have been appropriately thought out. Gear one might make for ARC's (assuming the OP's info is pretty accurate - and I don't see anything suggesting strongly otherwise) essentially becomes non-optimal if you are the kind of player that would like to have pieces of gear usable for multiple jobs. No other DoW job is going to want a ton of PIE over other stats like STR and VIT. ARC has been disadvantaged.

[Mihana]

Looking at your data I'm curious about one piece of Gridanian gear, the Serpent Sergeant's Tunic is similar to the Rainmaker's Tunic but with STR+10 MND+10 Attack+7 compared to the STR+6 MND+6 Attack+4 that the Rainmaker's has. It grants roughly +13 more defense too. Typically I figure it wouldn't really be worthwhile but on my server currently the price of Piety materia alone is insane. Might that tunic make a decent substitute or should I just stick with my Rainmaker's? Currently it has a +40 Crit Attack Power materia melded to it but I'm being told by someone who read this guide that it's useless.

[Seiken]

Hey Mihana, I haven't really tested the Crit Attack Power materia, but it is just my preference to always have a more reliable damage source with PIE/STR/ATK. For most enemies your rank, you will crit about 8-12% of your shots without using Blindside. For high ranked enemies, the crit % drops further (Looking at my last 4 moogle fights, i critted 4.95, 7.15, 8.14, and 5.35%). That being said, I would not invest the 5000 seals in the Serpent Sergeant's Tunic if I were you. You are gaining 4 STR and 3ATK, which is about 8.5 total STR assuming the 3:2 STR:ATK ratio is valid. Based off my R52/R55 data, you would only get about a 1.1% increase in damage. I would keep using your +40 Crit Rainmakers Tunic until you can save up and socket some PIE onto a new tunic. Getting 275-285 PIE should be your first priority as ARC to do more damage. Even single socketing a +13 PIE onto the tunic would increase your damage twice as much as the Sergeant's Tunic (2.3% versus 1.1%).

I hope this helps,

Seiken

[Mihana]

Yeah I worked on that recently. When the patch came out I sunk majority of my points into DEX and maybe a third into PIE so it's not very high overall. To counter that I picked up another rainmaker's tunic, got a +16 Piety materia and had it melded to that. Additionally I got a pair of felt kecks, added +10 Piety to that giving me +14 Piety with that piece of armor alone. Adding in 2 Piety rings I've raised my total to 271 Piety with 298 Dexterity in the trade-off. I'm much more satisfied with this setup though some people I know are insisting it's best to go all DEX/PIE and not waste anything in Strength at all and to focus more on Dexterity than Piety. I haven't had a real chance yet to test out the armor changes I've made since then yet I've noticed Bloodletter does stick more often during Ifrit fights than it did before.

[lordvr]

DEX is more valuable than ATK, point-for-point, at a 2:3 ratio.

So who's right, this dude or carraway?

[Spider-Dan]

I'll go with the person that's provided the test data.

[Seiken]

DEX is more valuable than ATK, point-for-point, at a 2:3 ratio.

So who's right, this dude or carraway?

Hey Lordvr,

All I can say for certain is that ATK is more valuable than DEX for light shot damage on R52 Zahar'ak Halberdiers and R55 Zahar'ak Feretrars. The rest is just believing that the trend will hold true for higher level mobs. I know from Lancer testing, ATK seems to be more valuable the higher the rank of the enemy. Still though, DEX has no influence on any weapon skill I tested on R52/R55 enemies. So to the best of my knowledge, DEX is the least important stat for endgame content. Try parsing yourself with a PIE 280/max ATK build compared to a High DEX/whatever build. Let me know if you perform better.

Good Luck,

Seiken

[Mihana]

Hey Lordvr,

All I can say for certain is that ATK is more valuable than DEX for light shot damage on R52 Zahar'ak Halberdiers and R55 Zahar'ak Feretrars. The rest is just believing that the trend will hold true for higher level mobs. I know from Lancer testing, ATK seems to be more valuable the higher the rank of the enemy. Still though, DEX has no influence on any weapon skill I tested on R52/R55 enemies. So to the best of my knowledge, DEX is the least important stat for endgame content. Try parsing yourself with a PIE 280/max ATK build compared to a High DEX/whatever build. Let me know if you perform better.

Good Luck,

Seiken

Personally I just prefer to max them both out or as high as I can go with my stuff. High attack won't mean much if you're shooting for miss miss miss miss on targets. Parties doesn't tend to be an issue I suppose. What I do know is since seeing this info I'm redoing almost all my classes trying to raise up certain stats I'd otherwise tend to ignore. Piety was one of them for ARC, and Intelligence was the other for PGL. I've noticed an increase in damage since redoing my gear and I'm satisfied with my results.