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Thread: Cure 3 Blues

  1. #1
    Player
    Braven's Avatar
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    Valora Stoutheart
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    Goblin
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    White Mage Lv 61

    Cure 3 Blues

    I love White Mage, but i feel like much of their burst healing potential is lost because party members spread out too much.

    Cure 3, with plantary indugence bonus, can heal everyone for 700 potency and is spamable. 1400 potency possible within about 3 seconds if used with swift cast. It easily outclasses all other healers and can also add alysum for even more (small) AOE healing.

    However, if everyone is spread out, you end up with less with only medica 1 at your disposal for a burst heal. I find I rarely use Cure 3 because of this.

    Unless the enemy has a really powerful melee range AOE that is used frequently, why doesn’t everyone just crowd around the enemies for easier healing (including ranged) After dodging a mechanic, head right back (and dodge to the same place).

    Instead, as soon as room wide AOE damage starts pulsing, people tend to run around like headless chickens.

    As a result, I perform better at AOE healing with scholar since all of thier spells have at least a 15 yalm radius.
    (2)
    Last edited by Braven; 01-31-2018 at 12:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Makani Risvertasashi
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    Ultros
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Well, on the plus side, medica II is the only spell with a 20y radius, and it helps a lot here.

    I tend to consider cure 3 to be a raid skill mostly. pug content... yeah, people don't stack usually.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
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  3. #3
    Player
    Braven's Avatar
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    Valora Stoutheart
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    Goblin
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    White Mage Lv 61
    I find healing is most reliable with SCH because all of their AOE abilities are 15 yalm. 20 yalm is nice, but 15 is usually enough. Healing tends to be a bit better than white mage when the party is spread out since indom. and succor is stronger than medica 1 and rouse+whispering dawn is much stronger than medica 2 (worse up time, but you only need it up during AOE pulse phases, so that doesn’t matter much). Also, the fey union and exco can provide the better single target healing and responds quicker and faster than whm cure 2 and regen.

    White mage is best when everyone is aware that they need to clump up when taking AOE damage. AOE healing throughput could be considered whm raid utility and I think really is what defines the class. It is just sad it doesn’t work well with duty finder because of the cooperation needed and healing checks don’t generally need that much throughput, making it overkill.
    (0)
    Last edited by Braven; 01-31-2018 at 02:22 AM.

  4. #4
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    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braven View Post
    I find healing is most reliable with SCH because all of their AOE abilities are 15 yalm.
    I think it comes down to a matter of preference. The main key is that medica can be spammed, and assize helps fill in a bit. SCH requires CD and resource management (besides MP). For example... There's no doubt that indom is very powerful, but it's once every 30 seconds and requires an aetherflow stack. Some will like one, others will like the other.
    (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  5. #5
    Player
    Braven's Avatar
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    Valora Stoutheart
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    Goblin
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    White Mage Lv 61
    Yeah, I do like the large AOE size of assize. Often it is cast just for damage and mp restore on cooldown when healing isn’t needed though making the healing part wasted. And it is a 60 sec cooldown vs 30 for indom and does 200 potency less healing.

    For aetherflow, you can basically ignore the resource since cooldowns are the limiting factor anyway for optimal use. You get 4 (with quicken aetherflow) over 60 seconds. Just think of the stack as reserved for:

    13% refresh (from aetherpacks).
    2 stacks for indom (1,000 pot. AOE)
    1 stack for exco (800 pot.)
    1 for lustrate/exco, alternated per cycle based on cooldown status (700 avg pot)
    Also gets fey covenent that kind off offsets divine benisons for free mitigation.

    That provides roughly equilivent healing and mp restore to:

    1 assize (300 AOE, 10% mp restore)
    2/3 of an asylum (~500 regen pot. if people clump and stay still)
    one tetra (700 pot)
    1/3 of a benediction
    2 divine benison (not sure the value conversion of 15% single target shield)
    1/2 thin air (2 or 3 free spells. Basically offset by free fairy skills)

    WHM gets a bit better single target healing and mitigation, while scholar gets better AOE healing and mitigation, but the overal difference is not huge. Mp management is about the same. Some whm spells are more expensive and some sch are more expensive. Thin air is countered by mp free fairy skills that whm needs to spend time and mp to cast (regen and medica 2)

    Succor provides 375 vs medica 300, but can’t quite be spammed because of the shield. However emergency tactics allows about 3 to be spammed in a row and indom for a big burst every 30 seconds. Also, since whispering dawn and embrace takes no actions, you can get the healing out quicker than whm can. While in theory whm can spam for longer due to things like thin air providing burst mp, there is just never a need to actually do so that I have seen. Outside of thin air, SCH has better mp generation since their mp refresh happens every 45 seconds while whm is roughly every 60 seconds and thin air is a 120 sec cooldown. Also, regens and whispering dawn take no mp, while medica 2 and regen casts add up to quite a lot. Some whm spells cost more mp, while for others SCH costs more, so that is basically a wash.

    Basically, for whm to considered a better healer, they need to be anle to make effective use of Cure 3. Otherwise, they fall behind, or need to waste a lot of global cooldowns (like casting regen on everybody individually) to be considered superior at AOE healing.
    (0)
    Last edited by Braven; 01-31-2018 at 03:16 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Makani Risvertasashi
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    What your describing is exactly why I mention raids. That's about the only place you'll sometimes see raid damage sustained to the point where SCH runs dry, allowing AST/WHM to shine a bit more there.

    In easier content... well, there's usually not a lot to heal in general, and yeah, SCH's oGCDs can definitely shine there, allowing even more DPS uptime. But the other healers do have their strong points too.

    Circling back to Cure III in particular, yes, it's definitely a highly situational skill, but the toolkit overall is pretty OK.
    (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  7. #7
    Player
    Braven's Avatar
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    Valora Stoutheart
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    Goblin
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    White Mage Lv 61
    Yeah, I do think the healers are all pretty balanced. Much better than the other roles, in my opinion. I think of Cure 3 as whm “raid utility” (equilivent to chain stratgem and expanded balance in potential usefulness). I am not sure I believe that WHM actually has better mp management. In theory, scholar has better as long as you are not constantly spamming Aldo and Succor (no real reason to). The mp was reduced in patches so it is okay to use them about as often as Cure 2 / medica 1 and be okay. Thin Air, while nice, has a long cooldown and basically just makes up for the fact whm has hogh cost spells like Holy, Medica 2, and Cure 3. SCH has the cheapest AOE spamable and their own “free spells” because of the fairy and doesn’t require any special planning to utilize. The standard mp refresh also happens every 45 seconds instead of every 60 seconds and is the same potency as assize. As a Scholar, I have never completely ran out of mana. The only times even getting low was when multiple raises are needed in a short period of time.

    Just makes me a little sad that most people seem to ignore that spell because of the risks of not hitting some party members greatly hinders the usability of the spell. Thin Air is perfect for supporting Cure 3 since it normally costs a ton of mana.

    The problem with low radius AOE healing is that it is all or nothing. If you miss a party member or two, than you will need to raise them which hugely hurts your success rate and party DPS numbers, not to mention mp. If you can get by with the lower potency “safe” AOE heals (medica, helio, succor) that all three healers have, it is better to use those. Most of the time, that works because generally there is enough time to heal between AOE bursts. Thry can’t really put in a huge extended burst healing “heal” check because the other 2 healers would have a hard time passing it and all content needs to be completable by all jobs. However, raid DPS is always at least helpful.

    In summary, Cure 3 requires coordination by everyone while other heals/utilty abilities don’t.
    (0)
    Last edited by Braven; 01-31-2018 at 03:57 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Roll's Avatar
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    Roland Starwind
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    Adamantoise
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    White Mage Lv 70
    In most cases Largesse+Medica2 is better than Cure3 since it has a larger range, less MP cost, and heals more. If more healing is needed quickly then Plenary Indulgence or even an Assize can be used as well.

    The only time I really use Cure3 is when the melee DPS and the tank take a huge hit. I then position myself between them and cast it on myself to heal everyone.

    Also one of the biggest reasons why Scholar’s heal potencies seems higher is because abilities such as Lustrate, Indomitability, Excogitation, and Fey Union are NOT spells and do not benefit from the following buffs:


    Dissipation
    Fey Illumination from your fairy
    Largesse as a healer role action
    Convalescence as a tank role action
    Defiance Warrior’s tank stance
    Mantra from Monk
    Nature’s Minne from Bard
    Devotion from Summoner


    Also I want to correct a few misconceptions for you:


    *1.“I perform better at AOE healing with scholar since all of thier spells have at least a 15 yalm radius”

    So does Medica1 and Assize. Also Medica2 has a 20 yalm radius which one of the largest aoe heal outside of the limit break which is 30 yalms for all healers. (Plenary Indulgence is 30 yalms as well)


    *2."White mage is best when everyone is aware that they need to clump up when taking AOE damage"

    Most of the time the healing from Cure3 isn't needed. If it was then people would need White Mages for all content. Largesse+Medica2 is usually enough for big hits.


    *3.“Assize. Often it is cast just for damage and mp restore on cooldown when healing isn’t needed though making the healing part wasted. And it is a 60 sec cooldown vs 30 for indom and does 200 potency less healing.

    Assize’s cooldown can be reduced to 45 seconds pretty easily with the Lillies. If you know a big hit is coming up you can use Assize for it instead of using it as soon as it’s off cooldown. Also for what it's worth, the questionable Secret of the Lily 2 can lower the cooldown even further.


    *4."13% refresh (from aetherpacks)"

    It’s 10% MP back from Aetherflow if that's what you meant from "Aetherpacks"



    *5."Also gets fey covenent that kind off offsets divine benisons for free mitigation."

    Fey Covenant reduces only magic damage. Divine Benison reduces any kind of damage. Plus they're both 2 very different things.


    *6."thin air (2 or 3 free spells. Basically offset by free fairy skills)"

    Thin Air can get off more than 2-3 spells... Not to mention with Presence of Mind you can get off 5 free Holies (12000+MP saved) or 2 Raises with a Swift Cast+hard cast.


    *7."Succor provides 375 vs medica 300"

    This is assuming that the shield afterwards blocks an attack unless you mean with Emergency Tactics which has a cooldown. At worse it's an 150 aoe heal. Medica1 is 300. Also Medica1+Plenary Indulgence=450 potency at least.


    *8."However emergency tactics allows about 3 to be spammed in a row"

    Emergency Tactics gets used up for ONE Adloquium or Succor; it's not continuous.


    *9."whispering dawn and embrace takes no actions, you can get the healing out quicker than whm can"

    It's a good practice for White Mages focus target the boss to see when an attack is about to go out and precasting their heals anyway. Plus Swift Cast/Prescence of Mind is a thing. Also Medica2 has an initial heal of 200 and a regen while Whispering Dawn just applies the regen. If Largesse is used beforehand then the heal AND the regens get boost as well. Also you have to micromanage your fairy so it doesn't blow all of it's cooldowns.


    *10."Also, regens and whispering dawn take no mp, while medica 2 and regen casts add up to quite a lot"

    You know White Mage’s big thing right now is that it pretty much has infinite MP now right?


    *11."Basically, for whm to considered a better healer, they need to be anle to make effective use of Cure 3. Otherwise, they fall behind, or need to waste a lot of global cooldowns (like casting regen on everybody individually) to be considered superior at AOE healing."

    There are better ways of healing/managing MP and this isn't one of them. Casting Regen on everyone individually sounds like one of the biggest wastes of MP and healing there is.

    *12."I am not sure I believe that WHM actually has better mp management"

    See the earlier Thin Air comment. Also White Mages are perfectly fine with Lucid Dreaming, Assize, Thin Air and even Freecure procs. Also considering that your healers are WHM 60, SCH 44, and AST 45 at the time of this post, you haven't experienced a lot of the stuff that you're talking about.

    *13."scholar has better as long as you are not constantly spamming Aldo and Succor (no real reason to)
    +
    SCH has the cheapest AOE spamable"


    What? First of all you contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. Second, you know if Indomitably and Emergency Tactics are on cooldown then guess what move you're going to have to spam to get everyone's HP back up; Succor. And it's not exactly cheap.

    *14."Thin Air is perfect for supporting Cure 3 since it normally costs a ton of mana."

    Thin Air is perfect for supporting Holy/Raise/Medica2 since it normally costs a ton of mana

    Fixed ^


    *15."I think of Cure 3 as whm “raid utility” (equilivent to chain stratgem and expanded balance in usefulness)."

    White Mage’s main focus at the moment is that if has potent heals, near infinite MP, and strong DPS.


    TL;DR version: All the healers are balanced really well at the moment. Use Largesse+Medica2+Plenary Indulgence instead of Cure3 since it’s less MP, larger range, and heals more. If people don’t use Cure3 much because of how situational it is they’ll probably change it again anyway.

    This topic derailed from "Cure 3 blues" to "SCH>WHM" from your comments and considering that your WHM is 60, SCH is 44, and AST is 45 according to this: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/20527387/ makes you lose some credibility to what you're talking about and trying to convey.
    (4)
    Last edited by Roll; 01-31-2018 at 07:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Braven's Avatar
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    Valora Stoutheart
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    Goblin
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    White Mage Lv 61
    I said “2 or 3 free spells” for Thin Air because I cut the benefit in half to fit the 60 second comparison window. I know you can do double that many spells, but the cooldown is a long 120 seconds for Thin Air. Regen needs to be refreshed several times in that amount of time and costs 840 mp a pop to equal embrace, along with a couple medica 2s to equal Whispering Dawn. Thin air is really just making up for the fact that whm spells are comparatively overpriced, don’t have free fairy regens, and have a 60 second mp refresh ability (assize) instead of a 45 second ability (aetherpact). This is why benedict is cheaper than Cure and Gravity cheaper than Holy, helios is cheaper than medica, and miasma 2 significantly cheaper than holy. Thin air is just making up for the fact White mage needs to spend more mana to do the same thing as the other healers.

    *It is not the defining feature of the job. They really all have about the same mp economy (well, at least if AST actually used Ewer instead of Royal Roading or using minor arcana every time it comes up).
    (0)
    Last edited by Braven; 01-31-2018 at 08:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    jstamos's Avatar
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    Character
    Yesui Himaa
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    Excalibur
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    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Braven View Post
    Cure 3, with plantary indugence bonus, can heal everyone for 700 potency and is spamable.
    Cure 3 is specifically overtuned because it requires a stacked raid. If you're using it as your main AoE heal, you are playing incorrectly.
    (10)

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