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  1. #51
    Player
    Commander_Justitia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Character
    Ash Longblade
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi View Post
    where strategies are definitely needed in order to win because it's so simplified. You've got to have a good awareness and quick reactions to be able to compete
    My toolkit was just so much bigger to deal with many situations. As Mnk I could steal all the buffs of tanks or range dps who just popped raging strikes, I could use a skill to increase the cast time of an enemy, I could pacify melees, I could use keen flurry, storms eye to evade and parry other melees while facetargeting them. I could help my healer with mantra and stuns, I could spam silence for a really long time to stop enemy healer or to stop enemy dps. I had to built up resistence down and keep dots up in order to be able to kill something, I couldnt just fall back and wait/hide and kill somebody in 3gcd like it is nowpossible. Being aggressive player paid out, now its often the opposite. What can I do now? I can't even run away if I don't use bolt. xD

    I see way 2 many people dying in safeguard and tank lb or protect, which are all mitigations around 20%, but if really all players of your team attack at once you have like a 20k dmg spike in 2 GCD, 20% wont stop them from death. Strategies are still needed but your resources to counter them are limited and not very effective, I want my counters to be effective, that is what good awareness is about.
    (1)

  2. #52
    Player
    RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    410
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    No, BRD couldn't delete someone, they had an easily telegraphed burst which fell off in damage if you did something as simple as stay in melee range, and you couldn't cast if the target ran behind you. Alert was a joke, period; it had tiny range and a huge cooldown. BLM's original enochian timing was incredibly tight, and enochian had a long cooldown; thunder spam was better because thundercloud procs were instant and much higher damage and DOT than a bard's arrows. Monk may have had all those tools, but they could be shut down with a timed sleep or a bind, until they added fetter ward, and casters could just sprint from them, since they had to spend TP to sprint. And they still had positional damage requirements. Plus, in so much of HW you wound up ignoring virtually all of a job's core mechanics to make use of a tiny subset of abilities.

    A lot of the issues we have now were just as present in 3.0. What would be worse would be the floor would be really low; you'd have average players be gimp just because all their pvp abilities were at max cooldown, and they would struggle to contribute at all. A good bard did decent burst damage, a bad one hit you for 300 points a hit with wanderers off and folded in seconds.
    (3)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 01-15-2018 at 03:50 AM.

  3. #53
    Player
    Etrius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Etrius Ballard
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    I'm kinda late for the party since i took a break for a few days...

    Lets try to remember that 4.X PvP "balancing" is done through Feast. Large scale battles are just broken without limiting the amount of roles per party. ("The Fold" 4-Healer party flashbacks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nedkel View Post
    The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?
    With the focus back on the Feast, your statement is wrong.
    The best Healer could always win the match, followed by DPs and then Tanks in terms of responsibility.
    It is a flawed design, you can have awesome Tanks and DPS, but the Healer alone can easily drag everyone down.

    And by that design, people are still afraid of healing in the Feast or are criticized for being "bad" healers... which is again, bad for queues.
    (3)

  4. #54
    Player
    ThirdChild_ZKI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,925
    Character
    Lace Valeria
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    No, BRD couldn't delete someone, they had an easily telegraphed burst which fell off in damage if you did something as simple as stay in melee range, and you couldn't cast if the target ran behind you. Alert was a joke, period; it had tiny range and a huge cooldown. BLM's original enochian timing was incredibly tight, and enochian had a long cooldown; thunder spam was better because thundercloud procs were instant and much higher damage and DOT than a bard's arrows. Monk may have had all those tools, but they could be shut down with a timed sleep or a bind, until they added fetter ward, and casters could just sprint from them, since they had to spend TP to sprint. And they still had positional damage requirements. Plus, in so much of HW you wound up ignoring virtually all of a job's core mechanics to make use of a tiny subset of abilities.

    A lot of the issues we have now were just as present in 3.0. What would be worse would be the floor would be really low; you'd have average players be gimp just because all their pvp abilities were at max cooldown, and they would struggle to contribute at all. A good bard did decent burst damage, a bad one hit you for 300 points a hit with wanderers off and folded in seconds.
    Not only was BRD burst strong, it STILL is even without Farshot. Won't 100-0 someone, but you can still easily hit them for half their HP with it. Alert/Detect wasn't all that useful in the Feast (though I watched many a NIN try to hide before me and would sprint out to their last location and blow Detect to expose them. Did it in Frontlines too), but careful use of it made for good counterstrategy. Yes, I know Enochian had tight timing. BLM was always a very technical job to play in PvP, but those who rose to the occasion were often huge threats if left unchecked.

    And are you saying MNK - arguably the best melee back then - could be shut down. . .with well timed CC skills? You mean to tell me CC skills somehow were effective in countering even the strongest bursts back then? CC skills, which some jobs, MNK itself, are lacking entirely now? No way. . .

    And yes, the difference was always knowing how and when to use your kit effectively. People still fail to do that with 9 buttons and less options. Doesn't mean 3.x wasn't better balanced than. . . this.
    (2)

  5. #55
    Player
    Wintersandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    872
    Character
    Winter Sandman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedkel View Post
    I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.
    In 2.x-3.x PLD played very differently in PvP than it did in PvE. Push Back...... anyone?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ08erBoJnU

    Should watch this for your enjoyment. Should actually watch all of his 3.x videos and then lets discuss how this 4.x system is so much better.
    (2)

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