Thread: "The Consequences of Reducing the Skill Gap" (A Video Relevant to the 4.0 Changes)

The less mechanics and game skill is needed in the game, the more skill it is needed to overcome someone.

If you both playing on the same rules and know each other moves, its becoming a real challenge to fight against him and more skill to overpower him.
Since you cant use a cheesy moves against him, because you both know all the stuff you could do, so micromanaging and manual skills starts to be more important than knowledge.
The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?
Lowering the skill ceilling is increasing the challenge, you cant win as easly as before against everyone. So i believe you people dont like it, because its not as easy to win the game as before, am i correct? :P
The pvp may had more buttons to press, but that doesnt mean it was any harder to execute combos and burst damage than in PVE. So the team with lesser knowledge about their abilities was losing.
btw
I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.

Originally Posted by Nedkel

The less mechanics and game skill is needed in the game, the more skill it is needed to overcome someone.

If you both playing on the same rules and know each other moves, its becoming a real challenge to fight against him and more skill to overpower him.
Since you cant use a cheesy moves against him, because you both know all the stuff you could do, so micromanaging and manual skills starts to be more important than knowledge.
The better player will still win the match, but not as easly as before, isnt it a good way to go on pvp design?
Lowering the skill ceilling is increasing the challenge, you cant win as easly as before against everyone. So i believe you people dont like it, because its not as easy to win the game as before, am i correct? :P
The pvp may had more buttons to press, but that doesnt mean it was any harder to execute combos and burst damage than in PVE. So the team with lesser knowledge about their abilities was losing.
btw
I actually enjoy that my PLD is a little different in PVP than it is on PVE, whenever i am off of playing pve i jump to pvp and enjoy the game like a brand new.

This post is so wrong on many levels.
Pre-4.x, the wide variety of skills for each job (including the PvP-only skills) allowed each job to be able to adapt to a variety of situations, and thus was pretty balanced (in their respective role, of course), tho of course some can do certain things better. For example, DRK, considered the underdog of tanks in 3.x, was pretty good in what it can do (tho required much more work to pull the same level of effectiveness as PLD or WAR) - a well-timed Carnal Chill can save souls, and well-placed Tarpit/Unleash can stop dead a retreat in Frontlines.
This situation changed in 4.x. With the reduction to 9 skills, and with devs' inability to conceive what is good for each job, it has created a situation when one kit is far superior to others of the same role. Take a look at NIN's kit: it has almost every CC, has insane mobility...with stealth 2.0 (can run in normal speed, and if you sprint before stealth kicks in, you get to keep the sprint too). Now look at MNK's kit: it's a pile of hot garbage, with almost zero sustain, zero disengage - a job for the most masochistic (sadistic?) of players who love to hear the death groan of their character.
When every job has a kit that can fare well against each other, then we can talk about skill. Lowering the skill ceiling? Yea, it's so low that there's only so much you can do with it...it's like you have the ability to go to PhD yet your government says that the highest level of education is 5th grade.

IDK bout this. I remember in Seal Rock bards debating whether or not it was better to keep wanderers on, only to find out with it off you did less damage than a mch's turret if you were out of the sweet spot. DOTS were just a tax to make sure sidewinder did full potency, as they could be outhealed and even aoe spam could be. BLM for one was ridiculous in terms of skill; you had a huge learning curve just to use enochian, and a lot of people just ignored the HW abilities, and thunder spammed since its procs were better damage than trying to use enochian at all.

not even sure how good monk was, it had all the issues of trying to maintain GL the PvE version had, and only was good because at the time it had a ton of OGCDs. NIN's stealth if anything was worse because they had no real counter to it save alert; you could know a nin was stealth camping your base and could do nothing because alert's radius was so tiny and only two jobs had it. Plus melee in general sucked a lot more when every job in frontlines could CC you the moment you lunged...ppl forget how much 3.0 was improved from start.

Oh and balanced...ugh, people were complaining so much about scholar being crap tier and whm being OP, because WHM had the best CC and fairies were easily slept or taken care of. It wasn't this wonderland of balance.

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

IDK bout this. I remember in Seal Rock bards debating whether or not it was better to keep wanderers on, only to find out with it off you did less damage than a mch's turret if you were out of the sweet spot. DOTS were just a tax to make sure sidewinder did full potency, as they could be outhealed and even aoe spam could be. BLM for one was ridiculous in terms of skill; you had a huge learning curve just to use enochian, and a lot of people just ignored the HW abilities, and thunder spammed since its procs were better damage than trying to use enochian at all.

not even sure how good monk was, it had all the issues of trying to maintain GL the PvE version had, and only was good because at the time it had a ton of OGCDs. NIN's stealth if anything was worse because they had no real counter to it save alert; you could know a nin was stealth camping your base and could do nothing because alert's radius was so tiny and only two jobs had it. Plus melee in general sucked a lot more when every job in frontlines could CC you the moment you lunged...ppl forget how much 3.0 was improved from start.

Oh and balanced...ugh, people were complaining so much about scholar being crap tier and whm being OP, because WHM had the best CC and fairies were easily slept or taken care of. It wasn't this wonderland of balance.

Let's see. . .

BRDs were insanely powerful in 3.x PvP. The BRD burst could 100-0 someone and if they were trying to play a range game against you (that is, trying to run in and out of your max range) you could just Iron Jaws them and wait them out. Pretty sure no BLM - no GOOD BLM - would ignore HW abilities, especially when a good 2 or 3 Fire IVs could kill someone.

MNK was undisputedly the best melee of that time. An always-on 10% damage mitigation? Silence on command? Insane burst potential even without Fists of Fire? 2 stuns, and a Pacification skill? Yeah, MNK like any other melee required some planning ahead, but you could literally pick a target to go delete, and just do it.

3 jobs had Alert (Detect). The "Dexes": BRD, MCH, and NIN themselves.

Why was WHM considered SO good? SLEEP. A heavy tank cooldown and regen in the form of a puddle (Sacred Prism). Assize being an attack, a heal, AND an MP refresh. And while situational, HOLY: The only other aoe stun in the game.

No, 3.x PvP wasn't perfectly balanced. But stop trying to point out 3.x's imbalance as if 4.0 is somehow better. One need only look at the state of Feast leaderboards, or what the most played ROLE is in Rival Wings. . . Yeah, THEN say something about balance.

Oh, for anyone who thinks AST is ridiculous now, they were even better then. I've seen an AST in 3.x literally survive an entire team of 8 on her from their base back to hers, utilizing the skills of her kit to their fullest to survive and mitigate the entire time. It was amazing to see.

You continue to only look at what was bad, and not what was actually good then, and give erroneous or half-informed facts besides. YOU perhaps didn't like 3.x PvP, but that doesn't mean it wasn't better than 4.0 PvP by a long shot.