More Egi's Or Demi-Primals?

[Eloah]

i didn't read every post, but I do like the idea of Demi-Primals over "more" Egis. But I feel we should at least get the original 6 as Egis and any future Primals can become Demi-Primals. Alexander, Pheonix, and the Triad ore good candidates for Demi-Primals. But yeah, Fix the Egi issue they made and then focus on the glamours and the Demi-Primals

[Llugen]

I didn't read most of these responses, but since I made a similar post in a thread very similar to this one, I'll plop it here too:


The most valid reason that SE hasn't pumped out new Egis (Leviathan, Ramuh, Sephirot, etc) is because not only would it become difficult to balance them all without overlapping skillsets, the learning curve on playing the SMN job already is (was, as of 3.58) a bit more challenging than the other jobs, or at least it was perceived that way by the community. To add loads of new Egi would exacerbate that gap; consider that the main rotation of MNK/DRG has mostly stayed almost exactly the same since even 2.0. This would put SMN at a further "disadvantage" when it comes to knowing what to use and when. In 2.x I proposed that they rework it so Garuda is the "ranged physical pet" with contagion removed and Leviathan could be the "caster pet" hitting harder than Ifrit for AoE damage, and Ramuh could be the "defensive party pet" with some sort of refresh or partywide buffs, and Shiva could be the "target vulnerability pet" with contagion, but this line of thinking very quickly falls into exactly that: exacerbation of the skill gap between players, not to mention forcibly making at least some Egi effectively "obsolete".



The Demi idea is at least a little bit of rectification for this, since it only has ONE button and executes its own autoattack based on what you yourself do as the player (vs. the Egi that just have an AI of their own, and not a very great one at that), and only lasts for the 20 seconds. Especially since it is on a time limit, I could definitely see the level 80 skill being Summon Alexander or Summon Midgardsormr or what-have-you, and what you'd do is after every DWT you could summon either Bahamut or the new one, or in a specific order, etc. Perhaps even in 5.0 they could rework the Egi/Faerie system entirely as an overhaul to make the rest of the summons work like this, but we will see what's in store. Who knows, maybe in 5.x they'll let you summon two at once.

Even still, it feels less like what I think of when I think of Final Fantasy summons: Aeons from FFX where it's the summon itself doing the damage and the summoner just kinda chills. Truly SMN feels far less like a DoT class now that you only really cast them once every 2 minutes, but it is undoubtedly still a DoT class at heart, since your stacks rely on dots and your DWT relies on stacks and your Demi relies on DWT.


I think that where the job is right now is the best place it's ever been in. I'm not opposed to new Egi, I just think the above insight is illuminating. This is why I'm a bigger fan of the glamours, particularly if they allowed you to glamour the Egi over the other Egi. With this line of thought, you have a melee Egi a Ranged Egi and a Tank Egi (which could use some reworking to be more useful, to be fair), and then you could glamour whichever sprite over any of them that you wanted without repercussion (So ifrit could spit fire, Garuda could slash like a ninja with her wings, etc). This would be a meaningful balance between "immersion/fantasy" and balance, in my opinion.

[Remedi]

If they could make either ifrit or garuda be simply aoe aspected summon while the other the ST one I think it would fix most problems

[SoloWingMetatron]

Phoenix-egi simply charges in the direction of a player and then they charge back homing on a target

But it might more possible for SE to implement Phoenix before Alexander as a Demi-primal, that said I don't think the original ARR will be nothjing more than egis, I kinda think that higher primals should be considered as demi-summons.

Unless they want for summons to be galmour only which could be a possibility too if they implement it as a Role function (in the same extension that BRD can play songs).

I agree that Primals should be Egi and Elder Primals should be Demi's, they need to be special and kinda like "ultimate" summons from past FF's.

I definitely think Phoenix would make a great Demi! His Enkindle could be an AoE based fire attack (hits for less damage than Bahamut) but also applies an Auto-Phoenix buff to the party, This Auto-Phoenix could simply just mean each party member gets a free resurrection when they next die. However it would be at extremely low HP, meaning it's only useful if the healers can get their HP back up quick enough before the next hit. This would hopefully prevent Phoenix from being over powered.

[Llugen]

I mean, far be it from me of all people to be disgruntled about lore vs implementation of skills, but I think Phoenix wouldn't be a very good choice given its role in FFXIV's story already. That being said if they decided to do it, I wouldn't be disappointed or anything.


Probably sooner would be Midgardsormr, although I guess that's DRG's thing kinda. Or maybe Tiamat will get with the program here or something ;D

When I'd heard about Demi Bahamut I thought to myself it would be neat if Demi Bahamut came from Garuda Egi, Demi Alexander came from Titan Egi, and then something else for Ifrit Egi, maybe Omega I guess but something more "physical" would be more appropriate. Granted, this is before I found out that it only lasts 20 seconds (this was the at the height of the 4.0 skills teaser).

[Remedi]

Niether Midgarsormr nor Tiamath can be summoned since they are not primals but just dragons, bahamut is an execption because what we saw is primal bahamut and not real bahamut which was a bit different from what we've seen

[Llugen]

I mean sure, but by that logic the ascians could be dicks and turn Tiamat into a primal or midgardsormr if we have some kind of confrontation with them later this xpac that fails utterly

[Remedi]

If both of them wants to summon forth a visage of themselves as a primals yes, but it's very unlikely, Ascians do not change you into a primal they simply share you the knowledge on how you can do it besides Tiamat wants to spend the eternity as a captive for her sin so they'll need to create a strange loophole for that to work

That aside since BRD is getting an UI for the songs why not making a real UI for egi-glamours? They could make it that you modify the elemental aether you use so that you can summon egis that use the combinations of elements you want to asborb.
Their skills effects wouldn't change ofc just the animation but imho could be a nice way to actually implemnt the option since frankly the use of commands is kinda meh if you ask me

[Llugen]

I mean this is the same kind of "sideshow" lore discussion from the Raise thread that Cyn so accurately pointed out. Tomorrow the Devs could decide to do another server close event where Omega really does decide to destroy the world. I'm just saying we can't rule anything out just because it hasn't happened yet, that's the beauty of the unfolding MMO story. Who knows what they will decide to do with what characters or figures.

Just because Tiamat is currently captive as far as we know doesn't mean in the next patch there won't be a cutscene where we go there to talk to her and the ascians have murdered her and stolen her likeness for a primal, or any number of possible outcomes.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I'm just saying we can't rule anything out just because it hasn't happened yet, that's the beauty of the unfolding MMO story. Who knows what they will decide to do with what characters or figures.

I very much agree, but to bring it back to Phoenix for a moment...by this very same logic it is entirely plausible to have Phoenix as a new Demi. Being a Primal of resurrection, this trait instantly gives the devs an easy way to implement a Demi that offers something unique via some kind of Auto-Phoenix buff or other trait that allows for resurrection and/or healing.