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  1. #11
    Player
    HaroldSaxon's Avatar
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    Feb 2014
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    632
    Character
    Harold Saxon
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Maku View Post
    The main issue is Disembowel. All things being equal I'm usually at the top of pars in the content I do on my BLM, but generally the other people in the content I do are not top tier or really caring so much about going all out like I do.

    The issues lies in synergy.

    Let's pretend that BLM is top DPS in all content by straight up numbers. But bring in the synergy that BRD/MCH/NIN/DRG have and they all buff each others damage beyond what 4 BLMs performing at the same level could do even though their personal DPS numbers might be the highest.

    I don't want to see that synergy removed to make BLM more viable, I would like BLM to be boosted to compensate.

    All in all I agree with everything you said.
    The thing is, even if Disembowel is removed, BLM still wouldn't be anywhere near the meta. It would require a DPS boost to BLM at the bare minimum for it to happen.

    I think its healthier game design if there was synergy between classes that is more active - things like stacking buffs, or putting single target buffs like Dragon Sight on DPS carries. I'd be more open to it if the damage types were balanced between classes and there were options for each damage type like that. But they aren't (that are 100% uptime buffs that are "passive").

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    There is a reason I don't play BLM for higher tier content. One of them being too many interruptions to play and be effective. Playing Savage/Ultimate does make sense and BLM is only suitable for battles that don't require too much moving around. There is no need to prove anything it makes common sense that would be the situation. While it may seem unfair that higher content may be unsuitable for certain classes the basics still apply. Again all of these has been covered in old BLM threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    The needs to BLM DPS involve as little interruptions as possible to be effective. It would make sense that DPS would not be on par with others in a situation where interruptions will constantly be happening. It's common sense hence back to the basics which are the fundamentals to everything. Again all of these has been covered in old BLM threads.

    Even if the fight was a 100% training dummy with 100% uptime, BLM does not get anywhere near the meta. You are absolutely incorrect.
    (4)

  2. #12
    Player
    Cynfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,144
    Character
    Testament De'anris
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    The needs to BLM DPS involve as little interruptions as possible to be effective. It would make sense that DPS would not be on par with others in a situation where interruptions will constantly be happening. It's common sense hence back to the basics which are the fundamentals to everything. Again all of these has been covered in old BLM threads.
    This is old hat for top BLMs.

    The issue is that BLM isn’t very competitive even when cooldowns and positioning are planned and executed perfectly. The Job isn’t somehow incapable of completing end-game content; it just doesn’t do much of anything notably well right now. Uptime is not the real issue for practiced BLMs.
    (6)

  3. #13
    Player
    ManuelBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milpitas , CA
    Posts
    2,132
    Character
    Manuel Bravo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon View Post
    .....

    Even if the fight was a 100% training dummy with 100% uptime, BLM does not get anywhere near the meta. You are absolutely incorrect.
    Oh? and to what is this census based on? What is your source and has this been compared since the most recent changes to BLM ? I would love to see that and compare notes based on your Analysis. Seems everyone is 100% sure of their numbers, I've yet to see any actual data comparisons or sources that are creditable. I didn't see it in your opening statement so I was impressed on how you broke the information down, however you might want to consider adding a reliable source that has tested your information or at a bare minimum has done test on it.
    (1)
    Last edited by ManuelBravo; 01-03-2018 at 07:58 AM.

  4. #14
    Player
    ManuelBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milpitas , CA
    Posts
    2,132
    Character
    Manuel Bravo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynfael View Post
    This is old hat for top BLMs.

    The issue is that BLM isn’t very competitive even when cooldowns and positioning are planned and executed perfectly. The Job isn’t somehow incapable of completing end-game content; it just doesn’t do much of anything notably well right now. Uptime is not the real issue for practiced BLMs.
    Your right, however in end game I've yet to see a BLM that can do it while maintaining their Damage flow. For the most part seems most spend time avoiding aoes or purposely dying rather than interrupting their spells. To each their own I guess.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    HaroldSaxon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Harold Saxon
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    Oh? and to what is this census based on? What is your source and has this been compared since the most recent changes to BLM ? I would love to see that and compare notes based on your Analysis. Seems everyone is 100% sure of their numbers, I've yet to see any actual data comparisons or sources that are creditable. I didn't see it in your opening statement so I was impressed on how you broke the information down, however you might want to consider adding a reliable source that has tested your information or at a bare minimum has done test on it.
    The source is in my original post. The most recent changes to BLM was in 4.05 when Omega Savage was released, so yes, its compared to the most recent changes to BLM.

    Where are your sources?
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player
    ManuelBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milpitas , CA
    Posts
    2,132
    Character
    Manuel Bravo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon View Post
    The source is in my original post. The most recent changes to BLM was in 4.05 when Omega Savage was released, so yes, its compared to the most recent changes to BLM.

    Where are your sources?
    To test I use https://www.mooglemedia.com/blm-guide/ and have tested it in my opinion is one of the best guides out there. Second if your on PC their is a program that can measure your DPS called ACT (Active combat Tracker ). This is something that raid leaders use. I've worked some people to gauge that for me. To proof my point you can do all the testing that you like it still won't change the one key point...player experience that is needed to properly measure. Now then based on your analysis I can tell you one thing for sure. Not everyone is at the same point in terms of experience with raids. Some are better than others and can really shine. The problems is their experience during the battle. As a BLM one of the major problems is the casting times and CD vs the flow of battle. In other words it's no surprise BLM would be one of the lower DPS when they are constantly moving. I mean come on even in normal raids some BLM are completely incompetent and lack experience, don't understand basic mechanics, and are ignorant of the 80% cast off timer vs 100%. It's no surprise that BLM players think something is wrong. Once again basics that have been constantly talked about in various threads. Nothing new.
    (1)
    Last edited by ManuelBravo; 01-03-2018 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Character limit

  7. #17
    Player
    Wintersandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,190
    Character
    Winter Sandman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    snip
    Thanks for the website as you just verified everything everyone has been saying. The damage scheme changes once Raid DPS is factored in as the website even pointed out it is Personal DPS not Raid DPS.
    (4)

  8. #18
    Player
    Llugen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    585
    Character
    Zera Vyre
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    I don't intend to turn this thread into another Zera-vs-everyone-about-Raise thread, but I'll merely say your accusation of "peddling" is a bit of a low blow, particularly if you didn't spend any time reading our discussion in the thread (Edit: sorry I just read your response to the other thread, and I do agree that "something unique" should be put on, but that -something- should be in the spirit of Raise as off-GCD in my opinion). Certainly no one wants Raise as a GCD on the class as is the current implementation on the other job, but recovery tools are an important consideration for the job (yes recovery, not just shielding) to compete with the other jobs, and therefore it should be carefully considered.

    Making a dual caster comp viable might go a ways toward helping this issue kinda, since you're no longer "locking your group" out from access to raise on DPS if you bring BLM/SMN or BLM/RDM, however as you said, this is going to take some consideration, and I'm not sure I see this really becoming viable anytime soon, particularly as soon as 4.2.






    Aside from the Raise argument, EVERYONE wants more damage on the job, certainly, but the way that I really want to see that happen is through reliable procs. Thunder Ready and "Firestorm" (check out my other suggestion threads) would go a long way toward this, adding another Fire IV to your rotation inherently and simultaneously increasing the number of Thundercloud procs you get and their potency value through "Thundersting" (again, read my other suggestion threads). Furthermore, more procs inherently means more chances to move for brief spurts and weave off-GCDs. It's a win-win-win situation.


    Apparently I'm the only one who likes this idea, but lastly I want to see a passive party-wide stat buff coming from Enhanced Enochian like crit buff from BRD's songs. It wouldn't make the gameplay ANY different for the job, but because it's now buffing party members, parties would want BLMs more rather than just accusing them of being selfish. Currently, parties WANT RDMs and SMNs, they don't want BLMs, so careful consideration should be taken to figure out how this can be desirable. Even SAM could be "wanted" in DRK/PLD groups for slashing, if nothing else. There is zero benefit from bringing BLM outside "raw damage" which we already established isn't even actually true at the moment.
    (1)
    Last edited by Llugen; 01-03-2018 at 11:32 AM.

  9. #19
    Player
    Remedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,465
    Character
    Remedi Maxwell
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 70
    I tried to explain that using MCH example of bringing a raid dps that is integral to your rotation could be a solution, but seems I'm not making myself clear

    even using that DRK/PLD example for SAM in a non NIN comp (which happened) true it's rare but it's still possible
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player
    Lina_Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Lina Slayer
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Remedi View Post
    I tried to explain that using MCH example of bringing a raid dps that is integral to your rotation could be a solution, but seems I'm not making myself clear

    even using that DRK/PLD example for SAM in a non NIN comp (which happened) true it's rare but it's still possible
    I'd go as far as to say it is not only A solution as it is THE ONLY TRUE solution, SE please save this selfish meme for 5.0 it never worked and never will on StormBlood.
    (0)

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