Thread: [Feedback] Overall 4.0 PvP Experience

Since the beginning of PvP in this game, this have been an issue.

Facts:
• Heals have 2500/5000 potency. (2.3s cast time, single target)
• Tank combos have 2750/3250 potency. (3 attacks, in 7-8 seconds if you're fast enough)
• DPS combos will vary from 2000 to 5000 depending on bursts.

Can we please have a PvP-related Dev explain why all the matches are being carried by Healers only?
Tanks should also have carry potential, 2 second duration "Crowd Control" skills (its kinda hilarious if you think about it) means nothing most of the time.

DPS on the other hand seems OK right? Wrong.
Bursts often take too long to build up, and you'll hardly be able to sync bursts on the same target without communication (Quick Chat doesn't work for that).

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What do we have right now?
• Capable players unable to climb up the rankings, matching with random people that have no idea what to do since practice isn't required to join ranked.
• Overpowered healing due to fear of backlash, will never be nerfed because it looks like people don't like deaths in PvP;
• Underpowered tanks that should either be a pro on math to calculate the exact time to CC or a total disaster, there's no midterm;
• Headless chicken DPS that can't seem to focus attack a single target marked with a big yellow [1] and Quick Chat command "Charge".

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Etrius.

Originally Posted by Etrius

Tanks should also have carry potential, 2 second duration "Crowd Control" skills (its kinda hilarious if you think about it) means nothing most of the time.

DPS on the other hand seems OK right? Wrong.
Bursts often take too long to build up, and you'll hardly be able to sync bursts on the same target without communication (Quick Chat doesn't work for that).

DRK has an exceptional amount of CC along with Warrior. DRK has a stun, silence, and pull back. Warrior has a bind, and stun and heavy. But PLD... silence and one stun with no gap closer

DPS Burst is even harder without the appropriate CC. It's almost as if you need to need to milk your DPS until the healer is halfway and then do your burst.

But I agree the 4.0 system broke a lot.

because traditionally you cc the shit out of healers, but they gutted everyone and gave them shit like a useless 2 second silence

that's time for 1 gcd attack

that's fucking garbage

The problem when they had crowd control was that if you were a healer, you spent most of the match stunlocked. It wasn't fun at all to play feast when you are unable to do much, and had to play around constant periods of immobility, and it really made healing an immense pain in the ass. They tried to reduce it so you weren't waiting 30 min per feast que for the healer to show up, but they forgot to nerf healing power to compensate. You go back to tanks having more cc and dps better burst, it just winds up making healing harder and less people doing it.

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

[...]but they forgot to nerf healing power to compensate.

They didn't "forget" to nerf them, they buffed them and on purpose. They even gave them an entire right side worth of VIT accessories with absolutely no tradeoff in healing power.

What they are doing is to make healers increasingly overpowered on purpose to increase their popularity. That's all there is to it. And they always were OP, CC just served as a bandaid - CC prevents people from using their power, regardless of how much they have. You can "Focus, CC and Burst" even people who have the melee limit break as a regular GCD ability, that doesn't make having melee LB as a regular GCD is not broken as all hell.

Dedicated healers simply shouldn't exist in PvP period. By their very design, they are at odds with the game-mode, because they are playing a minigame of health bar Tug of War with them tugging in the direction of "Health bar full" and everyone else tugging in the direction of "Health bar empty". If the game is balanced, i.e. everyone tugging is equally strong, that can only result in one thing: One soul shattering defeat of the healer after another after another. Feel free to try that out sometime with colleagues after work, you only need 4 roughly equally strong players and a length of rope. This is something that just plain cannot be fixed, healer design simply isn't redeemable.

And until the designers realize as much, I advise abusing the heck out of the mess they made trying to salvage the idea. You can commonly win 1vs2 against most DPS without issues and run from the power generator all the way to the base with 4-5 people in tow as well. That in itself is hilarious enough, but the punchline is the fact that some still consider this "balanced".

Originally Posted by PotatoTree

It's balanced around diamond-level feast, so it should take 2 synced dps plus a ccing tank to burst down a healer. 1-2 gcd is all you need. The issue with healers in frontlines is that you just need a single above average healer to show all the dps that they don't know how to do damage since most players are not feast diamond level. If you do any buffing to dps or tank cc, you just end up with a few good tank/dps players steamrolling due to skill gap.

Also, dps need to know that sometimes it's ok to retreat. I mean is it really important that you and your buddy chase down that healer? Unless you're both buffed and sync the burst you'll just end up wasting a bunch of time or dying. I had dps just trickle in one by one to the caves under mid and I could healer dps them down. I mean if you're alone and see a healer just run away.

amen

/10chars

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The problem when they had crowd control was that if you were a healer, you spent most of the match stunlocked. It wasn't fun at all to play feast when you are unable to do much, and had to play around constant periods of immobility, and it really made healing an immense pain in the ass. They tried to reduce it so you weren't waiting 30 min per feast que for the healer to show up, but they forgot to nerf healing power to compensate. You go back to tanks having more cc and dps better burst, it just winds up making healing harder and less people doing it.

the solution is counterplay and class depth

you take purify to break cc (and diminishing returns eventually nullifies cc)
you have your own cc to peel with
and they give you a more diverse toolset that makes healing more manageable while players are trying to wreck your shit

crowd control is a core part of this style of pvp combat, locking people down or peeling them off teammates is where the good players are separated from the bad ones and gutting everyone's cc just lowers the skill ceiling.
in it's current state it feels like smacking your head against a wall in unison until it falls over.

Originally Posted by Etrius

Bursts often take too long to build up, and you'll hardly be able to sync bursts on the same target without communication (Quick Chat doesn't work for that).

Just use a burst macro like every single player on JP datacenter.

As for the other stuff, overall I think 4.0 PvP is fine. Diamond tanks I know have no trouble CCing, Diamond dps I know have no trouble killing. Etc.