Tank Stances, Traited

[shao32]

Tanks being simple is exactly the reason why you shouldn't simplify them even further.



If you don't see any difference, then you're not looking hard enough. You wouldn't even need to use CDs for certain things if you had the permanent benefits of tank stance, and threat would become a complete non-issue.

you will always need CDs for almost everything, tank stance extra mitigation is not a god mode either, except if they add a pasive 30% mitigation thats insane thats for sure but a 20% or a 15%? nah, and about hate depend of how they balance the emity bonus in combos, they can always half emity on non agro combos.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

you will always need CDs for almost everything,

"Always...almost..." Right, in DPS stance. Moving on.

tank stance extra mitigation is not a god mode either, except if they add a pasive 30% mitigation thats insane thats for sure but a 20% or a 15%? nah

No, it's not "god mode," nor did I ever remotely suggest that it was, but it is powerful. If you don't think what essentially amounts to permanent Rampart will change the way tanks play, then I don't know what to tell you.

There's a reason why tanks will use their tank stance during progression; it's a safety net. Do tanks really need a permanent safety net? Would you want such a thing?

I don't understand why you're underselling tank stance like this. Do you just feel obligated to disagree?

[shao32]

I don't understand why you're underselling tank stance like this. Do you just feel obligated to disagree?

obligated a disgreed no, i just not agreed with the actual situation, for just a 20% the cost its huge and dont really will chance my cds rotation have It permanent, if you dont use you cds properly on tank stance then you are being lazy.
Tank stances become worthless mitigation thanks to the damage penalty, heck the actual mentality is if you can survive without It even in progresión just drop it, the dps is more important.
Tank stances should need to be our Core stance for tanking and no a curse, if you want sacrifice defense for ofense do It with war how is desing to stance dancing properly not with all tanks.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Tank stances become worthless mitigation thanks to the damage penalty

No. Tank stance becomes "not worth it;" it doesn't become "worthless." There's a significant difference.

heck the actual mentality is if you can survive without It even in progresión just drop it, the dps is more important

Do you think I'm some kind of idiot who doesn't realize this? The point is that tank stance is powerful, but it has a significant penalty. I am very open to the idea that the penalty is too significant (as I indicated previously), but that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about removing that penalty entirely, which is asinine.

Tank stances should need to be our Core stance for tanking and no a curse

Why?

[shao32]

snip

in dint defend in any moment ironrocke's changes, im still waiting hem to respond my cuestions.
But even finding overexagerated some of his changes i dont find exagerated remove tank stances in a proper way.

And why not? Why all tanks need to have this niche of being taxed so hard when you use It but in theory se are desing to keep It on? Why se cant have a good sinergy with It? I can undertand It if we are desing for it and see all tank stances have proper penaltys but are not, it Will be more interesting if we work around It and not against It.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

No offense, but I'm having trouble understanding what it is you're trying to say.

And why not? Why all tanks need to have this niche of being taxed so hard when you use It but in theory se are desing to keep It on?

Why not make tank stance the focus? Because it's not the focus. Cooldowns are the focus; tank stance is a safety net. It's always an option if you need it for some reason, but it penalizes you if you do. That's how it's designed.

Is this good design? Yes, I think so. It rewards you for good play, such as managing cooldowns, coordinating raid mitigation, and utilizing the party's enmity management tools.

Why se cant have a good sinergy with It? I can undertand It if we are desing for it and see all tank stances have proper penaltys but are not, it Will be more interesting if we work around It and not against It.

Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand well enough what you're trying to say here. You mean why isn't there more play between stances? Because it's not effective enough. This is due to both job design and raid design. We have so many tools at our disposal that tank stance has become a distant last resort that we're hardly ever pressured enough to call upon. That doesn't mean we should be granted permanent access to it, however; that's obviously not necessary. Would I like to see more interactions like (old) Unchained? Maybe, but power creep is a concern.

[Jas710]

Screw it. Here's how it should be done. Remove the manual approach to switching between the two stances. When the player hits a tank skill, it automagically goes into tank stance. Hit a dps skill, then dps stance kicks in.

Re-color all skills to either red (dps stance), or blue (tank stance). Default always starts off in tank stance.

Then later, tanks can be replaced with squadmates after everyone stops playing tank jobs.

[Rufalus]

I was just thinking why does Darkside still exist as a button. You have it up all the time, both in and out of Grit tank stance. I guess you could turn it off to receive MP refresh effects from other party members but only when not in battle like a long phase change on a boss. It's a little clunky.

PvP pruning of skills did something nice for stances. They basically made no stance = your dps stance, so then you only have a button for one stance. War is just in Deliverance automatically if Defiance isn't applied.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

As much as I like tanking I think dps stance should receive higher penalties for tanking in dps stance. You really shouldn't be able to stay in it all the time. When I say penalties I mean take more damage in dps stance than we currently do, offensive damage should remain the same.

[konpachizaraki]

As much as I like tanking I think dps stance should receive higher penalties for tanking in dps stance. You really shouldn't be able to stay in it all the time. When I say penalties I mean take more damage in dps stance than we currently do, offensive damage should remain the same.

or both should not have penalty, that's better than both of them having it