Feedback Regarding GM Dorxenore (Further Review by Management Recommended)

[EveK]

This is not the first time I've posted here on this forum about an interaction with GM Dorxenore that I found less than reassuring. And while I can at least hope that no GM would be biased in their work - especially as the result of negative feedback posted on this forum - it's worth reiterating that your policy of accepting feedback on GM interactions ONLY in the form of a public broadcast likely needs to undergo review as well.

But on to today's issue. The ticket in question is 7593789. Its subject line included "Griefing, Vulgarity, Obscenity." The vulgarity in question was frequent and extreme, and the obscenity was players' obsession with discussion of sexual fantasies in the public new player help channel known as the Novice Network.

[8:30 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> Greetings Eve Knight. I see you placed another report about players kicking you from the Novice Network. Are you available to chat?

So immediately, I'm dubious. The tail end of the ticket was indeed about a troll kicking me from the Novice Network, but what about the whole rest of the ticket?

[8:30 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Among other things. Yes, I am. =)
[8:31 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I would like to clarify and inform you a few things about the report you placed.
[8:32 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Of course.
[8:32 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I would like to inform you, that players can chat about anything they wish to chat in any of the chat channels, including the novice network. Although the main purpose for the novice network is to assist the new players, it doesn't mean that is the only form of communication that can partake in that channel.

Seriously? "Players can chat about anything they wish?" This is the response to a report about subject matter any reasonable person would deem obscene? It sounds as if I'm complaining that they wanted to discuss brands of shampoo rather than reserving the channel strictly for Final Fantasy XIV questions. That is very obviously not the case. To think otherwise goes beyond failing to understand customer service policy - it's a spiteful and willful skewing of that policy. It's a clear effort to discourage any reports such as these. And, thankfully, every other FF14 GM I can recall recently talking to has had an extremely different (and far more appropriate) stance on such issues.

[8:33 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: You seem to misunderstand.
[8:33 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: The relevant issues weren't that the topics were "not assisting new players." It's that they were flagrantly obscene.
[8:33 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I would also like to remind you that you can't be forcing others to do what you would like, telling other players what to and not to say in any channels as you don't have that right to do so.

And as if the last statement wasn't bad enough, they go on to chastise me for suggesting players should have any shred of decency?

[8:34 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Your stance is contrary to every other Game Master I can recall speaking to. I ask that you please discuss these issues with your supervisor.
[8:34 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I will be placing an investigation on the following players: <redacted> for any issue that violates the ToS.

So I remove the list of player names for obvious reasons, but they don't even include one of the players clearly named in the body of the ticket.

[8:35 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, but I am endeavoring to exercise my right as a mentor to moderate the channel and report the clear violations of the terms I see.
[8:35 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: <redacted> is also named in the ticket.
[8:35 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> If you would like to avoid seeing such language or comments being used in game, it would be best that you place those players on the blacklist as to avoid any type of contact and harassment from those players towards you.

Does this GM even understand how moderating a channel works? Or what the actual result of blacklisting players like this would be? This concept is why so many just give up entirely and leave the Novice Network. It's bad enough that we have to go to such efforts to report such trolls. But when we do to feel like the GM we talk to is trolling us themselves? This is horrifying.

[8:36 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I will also add that person there, as it does not appear on the ticket.
[8:36 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Hm. Well, you're sort of right . I did forget to put it in the subject line but it's the subject of the last five lines of the body text of the ticket.
[8:37 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Regarding blacklist, I again ask that you consult your supervisors as you again contradict other GMs - namely that it would be contrary to the fundamental concept of moderating the channel to be ignoring statements made in the channel.
[8:37 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> You may do so as you please in moderating the novice network with what you may believe is a violation. Please be reminded that we GM's make that final decision on what really is a violation to the ToS.
[8:38 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Absolutely. And you're also the only ones that can actually do anything permanent as a kick of half an hour or three hours obviously does all too little to discourage this behavior.
[8:39 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> The blacklist is there to assist you from viewing such comments that you find offensive and to avoid such interactions and contact from such players. This doesn't mean that they are in the right to say such things but it helps you avoid them.
[8:39 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> Please keep in mind that we can't change the person that players the game on how they want to play. We can take all the actions we can on accounts, but that doesn't change the person.

For the record, I also find it disturbing that your GM seems to be espousing a philosophy of the collective work of all GMs ultimately having no change on the players involved. I, for one, know people can learn.

[8:39 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Indeed. =) Yes, I'm aware of the option to use it and continue to elect to not do so, instead seeking resolution rather than avoidance.
[8:40 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> Before I take my leave to start the investigation for any possible violation of the ToS, is there anything else that I can assist you with?
[8:41 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: Indeed. One can hope that somewhere along the way they may decide to improve themselves, but yes ... we cannot force them to do so. Although if it goes far enough, we can at least remove them from the game. We being you. Ultimately. Although I understand you require a report from a player to start looking into it in the first place. So still we. Sort of. =) Nope, that is all. Thank you, as always.
[8:41 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> I hope you have a grand and marvelous adventure on your journey. Farewell, Eve Knight.
[8:41 p.m.][GM]Gm Dorxenore >> If you would like you can leave feedback regarding your GM contact by going to the official forums at https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv and going under English Forum > Feedback > Website Feedback and Suggestions.
[8:41 p.m.]>> Gm Dorxenore: And you.

And lastly, this is a weird category for these posts. If you're not going to have a more appropriate mechanism for GM feedback, you could at least create a forum for them with an accurate name.

Overall, most of the GM interactions I've had over time are encouraging, helpful, and positive. And most of the feedback I've left regarding them here has similarly been appreciative, thankful, and cheerful. So, GM team, please keep up the good work that you are doing. And ... as for the work that warrants improvement ... I'm confident that you as a team can do whatever is necessary to achieve said improvement.

Edit: thought I did make this under "Website Feedback and Suggestions." Guess not. Well, feel free to move it wherever you like.

[PharisHanasaki]

Oh so I can't report people for exclusively using the novice network to post obsenities and moans? It was a thing on my server, and mentor who kicked them every time they joined back to spam more moans and what not was kicked by someone else because appparently that was abuse of the kick function. Unbelievable.
I'm glad you posted in the wrong forum.

[Zarabeth]

As the GM said, blacklist them and move on. Also you're on Balmung and (though revolting to many of us) this seems to be acceptable behavior there. Have you thought of moving to another server where this isn't the norm? Not that this kind of thing can't happen on any server, but it seems to be less prevalent on other servers. I think Mateus is the new rp server so might want to avoid that one too.

Also, this is not really the GM's fault. Free speech is a thing, even if we don't like what is being said.

[Penthea]

Not saying I disagree with OP, but that GM could be merely stating SE's official stance on this matter. Yes the Novice Network was created with the intent of helping players, but that does not mean that GMs were instructed on a policy specifically for it. So they instead treat reports from it as if it was for any other chat channel.

HOWEVER

I must wonder why obscenities in any public channel are allowed. But I suppose it would depend on what OP considers obscene and he was not specific about what was said. If it was of a very vulgar, cruel, discriminatory or sexual nature, then I would be shocked if this was considered to be acceptable behaviour in a public channel. If this is the case then I hope that it's just this GM doing their job poorly rather than SE having a terrible stance on it.

[ElHeggunte]

The GM is correct though. If your only real grievance is someone being vulgar in chat, blacklist them. That's what it's there for. It's another matter entirely if they're actively, specifically trying to harass you in a manner that can't be prevented by blacklisting (such as spamming audible emotes), but you can't expect them to police chat for "vulgarity" 24/7 when 1) everyone is going to have a differing opinion on what's considered obscene and 2) you have other means (read: blacklist) of preventing yourself from seeing the offending material.

I'm sorry that you feel the GM wasn't helpful, but they weren't wrong in their assessment and instruction. It's entirely on you that you refused to use the avenue of solution presented to you. Plus, the GM said they were escalating the issue for further investigation, so someone else may decide punishment is warranted, but this particular GM's initial assessment is correct.

[Areonus]

As the GM said, blacklist them and move on. Also you're on Balmung and (though revolting to many of us) this seems to be acceptable behavior there. Have you thought of moving to another server where this isn't the norm? Not that this kind of thing can't happen on any server, but it seems to be less prevalent on other servers. I think Mateus is the new rp server so might want to avoid that one too.

Also, this is not really the GM's fault. Free speech is a thing, even if we don't like what is being said.

Free speech in the way you mean it is in fact NOT a thing. The 2nd amendment covering free speech only covers governmental retaliation or censorship. Privately owned forums such as these or the actual game itself can and do often set limits on what kind of speech is allowed within, everyone here agreed to those restrictions when they signed up for accounts. Now whether or not dialogue in question broke those bounds or not, I have no idea, but "freedom of speech" has no power here.

[Rokke]

Also you're on Balmung and (though revolting to many of us) this seems to be acceptable behavior there.

Please get off that high horse, friend.


Balmung adheres to the same rules every other server does. Unfortunately as we have zero incoming new people NN acts as a huge social linkshell. Report, blacklist, and hope a warning will set people straight.

[RayneLittlewinkle]

With all due respect Eve. I see you kick people from the Novice network chat almost on a daily rountine. Then someone comes along and kicks you for accessive kicking or whatever. I'm just saying that maybe there is a bigger picture here.

[NaoTenbe]

Also, this is not really the GM's fault. Free speech is a thing, even if we don't like what is being said.

All of my 'WHaaAAAA?'
This is a privately held game, and there's rules and regulations therein that are addressed in the TOS.
So the 'free speech' argument don't fly here.
The other thing is, 'free speech' doesn't apply to obscenities or vulgarities.
Try going Tourette's syndrome in a mall, and you'll get a quick escort out of there and a 30 day ban at the minimum.

To me this sounds like the GM is siding with the people who abuse the chatroom.
Everything I've heard about Balmung and especially novice network is that it's friggin aids, cancer, lupus, ect..
At this point, OP should consider the kick a favor.
The other thing is, Balmung is FULL. So any leaf you see on there is a result of someone WORKING to get a new chara onto the server. It's nice that you're willing to help, but I don't think anyone there NEEDS help.

As far as the GM issue, keep working up the chain of command. GM's get a fair bit of leeway, until it starts causing bad publicity.

[EveK]

Plenty of new people, actually. Just because there are no new/transfer characters since June, that doesn't mean that anyone in there couldn't be playing for the first time in years. In theory, they could even have made a character in 2010, left it at level 1, and just now come back as a level 1 with pretty much zero experience. In actuality, I every day see plenty of people that stopped at level 50 and come back after being away for a few years.