Isn't it about time for WHM to get an AOE mitigation tool?

[Miles_Maelstrom]

You tend to see that across the board. "Distinct but equivalent" is REALLY hard to get right. The usual result is more similarities. It's why I tend to groan every time someone says we need another healing job. What's going to be distinct about it that will fit into the game without displacing someone else?

Lucky that job is not for anyone here. SE has talented designers, and it's up to them to create a unique job then can provide an experience without displacing another healers role in groups.

[Tridus]

Aslyum is also... odd. If Collective Unconscious went back to its initial incarnation of having the effect change between sects, I would say Asylum is fine as is, but right now... not really. In my head, CU and Asylum serve more or less the same end as Whispering Dawn: a "free" HoT CD that costs no MP and GCD. However, Asylum is by far the weakest of the three.

Asylum is the one I'd change to do this. People like to focus on Divine Benison, but that's a lot more useful as-is than Asylum. As it stands right now, Asylum is pretty easy to forget about most of the time and not feel like you're missing anything, aside from dropping it on the tank for some extra free HoT after you've used lilies on something better. It's really not comparable to Sacred Soil or Collective Unconscious at all, in part because the effect just isn't that strong and in part because getting it requires standing in the Asylum for an extended period of time... and on an awful lot of encounters being able to stand still that long means you likely don't need much healing anyway.

Hell, even making Asylum give you a HoT if you run through it so you can leave would be a welcome improvement, although that wouldn't be mitigation. (You could do something similar as a mini DB if you wanted it to give mitigation instead, or something that adds X% defense stat while you're in it, which would be pretty great on a tank and less so but still helpful on everyone else.)

TBH, I'm not convinced WHM needs more mitigation outside of double WHM scenarios, but I think SE makes pretty clear they don't encourage that anyway (see: double SCH).

[Sebazy]

Lucky that job is not for anyone here. SE has talented designers, and it's up to them to create a unique job then can provide an experience without displacing another healers role in groups.

The problem is that they don't really seem to care much for actually putting effort into cooking up diverse and well fleshed out healing abilities. Talented they might be, but Yoshida's job team is incredibly one dimensional and short sighted when it comes to healers IMHO.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

The problem is that they don't really seem to care much for actually putting effort into cooking up diverse and well fleshed out healing abilities. Talented they might be, but Yoshida's job team is incredibly one dimensional and short sighted when it comes to healers IMHO.

Well yeah, they have a bad track record. When they wanted to add a new healer instead of creating a new unique experience, they just took made a healer that could assume the role of either of their already existing healers with a push of a stance.

BUT, that only works once. They'll need to do something unique next time they add a healing job.

[Trunks]

This is why shielding and particularly AOE shielding are bad for the game and the healing meta. The more shielding gets added to healer jobs, the faster we slide down the slippery slope towards persistent spamming of AOE one-shot mechanics just to make healers relevant. Every new ability and tool that healers are given has potentially far-reaching consequences for the healing meta. Give WHM mitigation and then SCH and AST say, "WHM can do everything, we need Cure III", which is now pretty egregiously overpowered thanks to Thin Air.

WHM does not need mitigation; mitigation and AOE healing both need major nerfs across the board. The latest change to Succor was the exact opposite of what should've happened: Nocturnal Aspected Helios should've been reduced to Succor's level and had its MP cost increased. I am frankly astonished that AST has not seen any nerf. AOE Bole + Collective in particular is "wtf were they thinking" territory.

Nobody likes to see their Job get the bat, and I understand that. But we really need to be honest about this because, otherwise, where does it end?

[Fernosaur]

Again, I'll say that I wouldn't complain at all if WHM got buffs, I just think it's got a great kit and a good game flow as of now, and a lot of the criticism is unwarranted.

Ah, yes. I was talking exclusively about AoE healing oGCDs. I know Benediction is great, but the AoE oGCDS WHM has still pale in comparison to the ones SCH and AST possess.

You could say that it's not "that big a deal" to heal using a GCD instead of none, but it definitely grants much more mobility to the other jobs on top of the aforementioned efficiency, neither of which WHM has. And when you're striving to deal as much damage as possible (which is WHM's method of competing against the rDPS contributions of SCH and AST), stopping to cast a GCD heal is a bigger detriment than you would think.

While it's true that CU needs you to stop all your actions for up to 3 seconds before people get the HoT, it still has the mitigation element, it's still the strongest AoE HoT in the game, and once the HoT is applied both the AST and the rest of the party can forget about it and move wherever needed, whereas Asylum is just a static bubble with a mediocre potency HoT. Also, if you time CU right with server ticks you can have a literal instant HoT applied, which takes less time than a GCD cooldown. Honestly, for the awkward immobility Asylum has, I would say it deserves to have its potency per tick doubled, even if it means an overall duration decrease to match the same final total potency.

Earthly Star vs Cure III is kind of a finicky argument, since Cure III only edges out the former in very early progression, while AST needs to learn the fight to figure out the timing of the Star burst. Once that knowledge is down, though? It's likely that Cure III won't be used ever again save for really specific instances, even when running AST+WHM comps.

Even when using the Cure III Almagest solo-heal example, both AST and SCH can solo heal it using their own tools, so I don't think that's necessarily an advantage. WHM does it "easier" by just spamming the same spell over and over, but while also generating almost twice as much Enmity as the other two jobs, which is always risky in that particular part, specially if you're not running with a PLD.

To finish off, I definitely agree that WHM's kit is good and has a good flow of play right now. I don't think it needs buff to function. Heck, WHM is hands down the absolute best dungeon healer due to the raw power of its single target heals and AoE DPS. But for raids?

I'm just saying, when you compare all three kits against each other, the whole "WHM is the raw power healer" argument doesn't really hold up too well.

I repeat, I don't think it's needed to buff WHM, in the sense that it has a relatively healthy spot in the meta right now. It's safe, it's got infinite MP, and can spam huge heals. But the feeling of raw power really isn't there once you see Earthly Star topping everyone off from sub-30% and SCH putting out as much healing as Cure III while running every 30 seconds.

This is mostly coming from the user experience PoV. You can argue that it's an entirely subjective thing, and you would be right, honestly. I just don't see the issue in strengthening WHM's supposed identity, given that it would very likely not even change the meta as it currently stands. If anything, you'd only get more Scholars complaining about the job's low healing potencies and trying to get SE to buff SCH into a WHM with shields and a fairy.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

. They'll need to do something unique next time they add a healing job.

It's sad that I have to say this, but I absolutely dread the thought of a new healer anytime soon.
They simply can't get it right with the ones they already have, what chance do they have with a new healer joining this mess?
I think one of the main problems is the healers can all do too much right now.
SCH can mitigate, and Regen, and burst heal, and do near WHM level DPS, and offer utility.

AST can do all of the above but more utility and less damage.

WHM is probably the only balanced healer in this regard. It heals heavily with strong GCD heals and not much else.
So what's left for the next healer? Regens? WHM has that. Mitigation? Two other healers have that. They really need to calm down with giving SCH and AST everything and calling it balanced by putting it in a CD

[Stabby-Chan]

I think about in the form of design:

I love WHM, but the class is a pure healer that also has high DPS for a healer.
A raid design that intentionally forces mitigation or the party wipes means that WHM can not function fully in there.
In short, it is not the fault of WHM. It is a design flaw (unless the intention was to take WHM out of the picture for that map)...

Tanks are responsible for controlling the battlefield and using their heavy armor and skills to mitigate damage.
Remember, that the whole reason a tank exists is to withstand and redirect the damage meant for others to themselves....

Bring two WHM into a map, and a mitigation-check causes everyone to wipe.
That is on the map design, not the healer...since any healer by endgame who has mitigation will know how to use it and apply it well.

[Miste]

I think one of the main problems is the healers can all do too much right now.

They can do too much now because of people complaining constantly about healers not being able to do the exact same things the other healers do.

I mean look at this thread. It is your thread. What did you suggest in the OP?

To give WHM more things they can do.

So I find it kind of strange you would be the one to bring this up...I mean sure a weak aoe shield for WHM on a long cooldown isn't going to break the game or balance really, but you still asked for it and it is doing the same thing you just said was the main problem: giving healers, in this case WHM, more things they can do.

I mean the same thing happens with DPS jobs and I found it really funny when Yoshida and his team during a live letter basically said 'If you want what another job has go play the other job then' because people were in a huge uproar about SMN that they couldn't heal people like a RDM can because Physick is weak even though they finally gave them Bahamut too because SMN has been complaining about no cool or powerful looking summons for a long time.

I mean it seems to me the player base is doing this to themselves. They constantly covet things other jobs have on their preferred job that it starts to end up where every job has an answer to everything all other jobs can do as well and ends up having barely any diversity. I mean I play AST and WHM and sometimes on AST during difficult content I miss not having some of the tools WHM has like Assize, Thin Air, Cure III, or Benediction because they are powerfully useful sometimes, but I don't come to the forums and demand AST get the same things as WHM because of it.

It is the people who constantly complain about balance not being 100% that cause this to happen because like I said before 100% balance is impossible when all jobs play differently and have separate toolkits. So what can happen when people complain the jobs aren't balanced enough? SE adds more and more homogenization and gives the jobs answers to what other jobs have to close the gap.

The gap wasn't even really far to begin with in most cases and the jobs are still viably able to clear all content in the game, but just being viable and able to clear all content in the game isn't enough for some people and they will complain unless the job they personally like to play is always #1.

This isn't to say in some cases complaints are not justified because sometimes they definitely are because the gap is too large, but some people continue to complain even if the gap is pretty small. I mean SMN's complaining they can raise like RDM can but don't have Vercure....seems to me that is completely unnecessary.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I mean look at this thread. It is your thread. What did you suggest in the OP?

To give WHM more things they can do.

So I find it kind of strange you would be the one to bring this up...

I know it sounds hypocritical, but I said what I said in regards to healers going forward.
Right now though, in this expansion specifically, I think it does need something extra to compete properly with the other healers in more than just the progression phase of a raid.

What I would TRULY like is for all healers to be stripped of their huge multipurpose design and focus on one main thing. SCH and mitigation/fairy usage. AST with raid utility. WHM with heavy heals.

But that's simply not going to happen so, we have to talk about how to balance them as they are now, and for right now, I feel some form of utility or small AOE mitigation on a CD is needed.

but just being viable and able to clear all content in the game isn't enough for some people and they will complain unless the job they personally like to play is always #1.

You're right on one part. Viability isn't enough for me. Viability is such a broad, wide sweeping word. It just means that it's not broken. That it can clear content, despite how it feels to play, how it is comparatively to other jobs, how fun a job is.
I really do hate the word at this point, it feels like it's a poor excuse to ignore issues with the job.

Why should a job stop at being viable? That's not what anyone should aim for or accept.

As for me wanting them to be #1, that's not true at all. I simply want jobs to be able to stand up comparatively to eachother.