Minimum Ilvl Roulette

[Pence]

However, without proper incentives (and they would probably have to be hefty given how most people will choose the easy way to run content), people won’t do it. I think it would be a nice change to have it offer current capped tomes, because Expert Roulette is the only decent source of them at the time, and it gets extremely dull running the same 3 dungeons over and over. More variety is always a good thing, I think.

First part: This was the issue with Coil (Savage). A harder fight with no incentive besides a title.

Second part: Less and less people even bother with expert for tomes anymore. I'm normally capped way before reset without bothering with them. This is one of the reasons SE is adding less dungeons: People are capping tomes through various means and dungeons are just not popular anymore (Though they may have missed the mark here; people just don't wanna do it because it's horrid content)

[Tint]

yes please ^^/

we did a naked run in amdapor city with our FC a while ago, it was a lot of fun. we actually had to pass the tether at first boss to the tank, because if anyone else would have been sucked into the belly he didn't survived ^^ and we had to handle the doors at last boss. much more fun than overgearing the dungeons and ignoring all mechanics :O

[HyoMinPark]

First part: This was the issue with Coil (Savage). A harder fight with no incentive besides a title.

My opinion is that, when content is relevant, there are still people willing to do content that offers little incentives outside of a title. See the upcoming Super Savage. As far as I am aware, it only offers a title—no other shinies, unless this has been changed. Yet there was a thread on here not too long ago with posters complaining about how “inaccessible” it was to lock Super Savage behind clearing V4S. However, I was not playing when Coil or Second Coil Savage was relevant, so whether or not this was the case then, I don’t know, but I still did Second Coil Savage (albeit, unsynced) just for 1. Something to do during he lull before SB, and 2. I wanted the titles.

I have plenty of interest to try my hand running Coil and Second Coil Savage at minimum ilvl. Because why not? I’ve done most everything else in this game. But finding likeminded people will definitely be a challenge for such an endeavor.

Second part: Less and less people even bother with expert for tomes anymore. I'm normally capped way before reset without bothering with them. This is one of the reasons SE is adding less dungeons: People are capping tomes through various means and dungeons are just not popular anymore (Though they may have missed the mark here; people just don't wanna do it because it's horrid content)

I think that’s probably more so that Expert Roulette is extremely dull. I can barely bring myself to cap each week now that I have geared BRD in everything but the last Savage pieces I need. The dungeons stopped being interesting after week one, and the runs are only made interesting when there’s other factors (like drama) to make them so. Expert is the easiest of the methods available to cap tomes, but also the most boring.


I know there are people that want this, but like I and others said, unless there are decent incentives, people that do not already have a prior interest in running content at minimum ilvl won’t do it. Because...well, why?

[Pence]

My opinion is that, when content is relevant, there are still people willing to do content that offers little incentives outside of a title. See the upcoming Super Savage. As far as I am aware, it only offers a title—no other shinies, unless this has been changed.

This was never changed, because it was never said. They actually made it clear it would be more than just titles - and it is in fact new i345 weapons with 'super sick amazing brah' designs. (But...c'mon, look at the state of end game gear. Don't expect much)

Also: 'Second Coil Savage' was never really a big thing. It feels like SE thought it was and spawned the initial Alex tier and......

[ilea]

I would not want this. I would like to see less roulettes overall -- or to see more equalisation between them (e.g. MSQ roulette should include the endgame trials/dungeons). However, I think it'd be great if they made an achievement for clearing ARR/HW/SB dungeons (eventually) at minimum ilevel, with a neat little title attached. As it is, though, we have too many roulettes to begin with.

[Grann-Goro]

Personaly, I would appreciate anything that would give Min ilevel more visibility (even if I've already done all the 50-60-70 4-men dungeons in this mode) !

It clearly is my favorite game style, as it really makes every boss fight interesting, and I'm sure many people would like it too, but they don't even know the existence of this option...

It would be interesting to know which dungeon encounters, if any, are especially hard with minimum ilv set given that they won't necessarily be properly balanced.

The final boss of Haukke Manor(Hard), by FAR the hardest one !!! She clearly is above every other 4-men boss !

Or at least it was during Heavensward.
With all the gameplay changes the 4.0 did, I don't know if it's still the case.


By the way, if you are interested by playing Min ilevel, or at least giving it a shot ^^, we have a Linkshell on Ragnarok called "Minimum ilevel Club".
We're mostly french guys, but we welcome anybody.

[Paladinleeds]

Personaly, I would appreciate anything that would give Min ilevel more visibility (even if I've already done all the 50-60-70 4-men dungeons in this mode) !

It clearly is my favorite game style, as it really makes every boss fight interesting, and I'm sure many people would like it too, but they don't even know the existence of this option...

By the way, if you are interested by playing Min ilevel, or at least giving it a shot ^^, we have a Linkshell on Ragnarok called "Minimum ilevel Club".
We're mostly french guys, but we welcome anybody.

I know you're mostly French guys, but do you guys speak English well? If so, do you have a Discord for it? I'd love to get involved in that (since we're on the same datacentre), but cross-realm linkshells aren't a thing... yet (they may or may not become a thing)

[Elvin]

If there is extra rewards, I would do it (With friends, of course, I woudn't do it with random people unless the rewards were something like.... 500 million gils per dungeon...)

[Zojha]

Not sure if this is referencing tomes, but you can’t accrue tomestones via unsynced runs unless someone has a bonus—and, at that point, you only get the bonus tome amount, not the full tome reward for duty completion. Experience-wise, obviously unsynced doesn’t provide you with any sort of experience.

Sure, but I don't feel like being nitpicky here, since that only goes to further drive the point I was making in the first place home - people generally don't prefer the hard way if they can have the easy way.

I don't ever recall them stating that that min ilvl is below the developed ilvl they assumed for.

It's the same old and worn interview often used in healer DPS debates, I bet you stumbled over it at some point.
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

[...]
Yoshida: When we make battle content, first we determine a minimum assumed item level required to clear. Then, we determine the total amount of party damage required to clear, taking a minimal amount of damage from tanks and healers into account during this calculation.

What do you mean by minimal?

Yoshida: Basically it's the damage from tank auto-attacks and the basic skill rotation used in order to maintain hate. We add this to the party damage needed. However, we often use zero in the calculation for damage required from healers. In other words, we only take into account the amount of damage necessary to perform as a tank or a healer and we don't take them into account as actively participating in attacking. For the clear assumption on DPS, we calculate the 100% value for the item level and we reduce that by 10 to 15 percent for the amount required to clear.

But it's often actually the case that healers do participate in attacking.

Yoshida: Well, the calculations are based on the item level assumed during development.

Ah, and that's different from the minimum item level required to try the content.

Yoshida: Yes. So if you try to clear it at a lower item level, it will be necessary for tanks and healers to participate in attacking. [...]

It's not 100% explicit, but it's easy to infer that he means "lower than the one assumed during development" in the last part, since an item level lower than is required to enter in the first place makes no sense, as that would mean you cannot enter. And since the two are explicitly different, that can only mean the assumed item level is higher than the minimum to enter. Which in turn also means healer DPS can be required to beat it. It's been chewed over numerous times.

[Grann-Goro]

@Paladinleeds

Well, I personaly am pretty confortable with english when it comes to read it, write it, or listen to it, but maybe a little less when it comes to speak... (lack of pratice I guess) ^^

But we do have a Discord for it, yes !
We have only used it a few times so far, as we haven't done a lot of 8-men content yet.
However, last time we used it with two swedish people, had to talk in english with them, and still managed to pass Bahamut 1 (no echo) !
It was awesome !!

For 4-men content, Discord isn't a necessary thing, and I've done a lot of dungeons thanks to the cross-realm party finder (both with unknow people and some regular guys).
Besides, the new 4.0 party finder is really cool, as it can show with more than text description that people want to play Mini !

So if you see me on it - or if I see you - we could play together.

When it comes to make a 8-men party, I usually use the Lodestone Event page.
That way, we can communicate cross-realm.