Tank skill gap, should SE do more? (damage taken issues/ hate issues)

[Venoshock]

Where you have guys in tank stance eating everything raw because they think they can. Or just like they are 90% ahead of aggro and actually still spam aggro combo. Okay m8.

I laughed at that lmao but for real, These tanks piss me the hell off, I don't bother shirking. Screw them. Those smelly 100% tank stance, aggro spammers. It's always those onces that insist on going mt too. It's even worse when you go mt, then pull in tank stance, get your aggro combo out and go sword oath then they provoke, go into tank stance asuming their mt...like wtf are you doing??? this drives me up the wall.

[kikix12]

For can't fix bad play sure you can, just have tanks take less damage? boost enmity values in moves? can't be that hard to adjust.

This doesn't fix bad play. It makes it easier. That means that for the GOOD players, it would be too easy. Unfortunately, the game needs to be balanced at such a point that there is still some challenge even for the good players, while it's manageable for the less skilled ones.
It's the same for all classes, even DPS. If the DPS suck, even a good tank and healer will not prevent the party dying, if for no other reason, then just cause the healer will run out of MP eventually. You can buy time running away to decrease the damage output in mob fights, or you can attempt to kite the bosses (if your PING is low enough), but that can take you so far.

I did not know spamming adlo was better in those situations though, still not right to kick me after a wipe and say nothing.

If the shield is used up entirely before your next cast, Adloquium gives more HP per cast. That's pretty obvious, with its total potency being 600 (more if it crits). But you are a scholar as well, so I guess I shouldn't have to say that Adloquium spam is impossible. It takes way too much MP for Lucid Dreaming and Aetherflow to keep up with it, especially in higher dungeons and boss fights. If you are forced to use it more than three or so times in a row every now and then, then chances are the parties survival hinges on the DPS anyway.

On a different note, Dissipation is a loss of healing in the long run. Unless all you need is a quick burst of powerful healing and a manageable healing after that, not using it is better. In a situation where you cannot keep up with the damage as is, using Dissipation will just speed up the process of the party dying out, by letting you cap the tank once, then have its health plummet shortly after.

On yet different note...Scholars healing is inferior to the other two healers since 3.0. It's a problem with the class. Having leveled all three to lvl70, I can assure you that in the same situation, with similar gear and clearly similar ability, healing with a Scholar is more challenging than with the other two healers. Not only do you have to keep healing without a break in situations where you could throw an attack here or there with the other healers, but you also have to do that while using greater variety of healing skills to keep up. For example, in a lot of content with White Mage, it's possible to just spam Cure II every-so-often with Regen in place, and attack in-between. Assize will deal with some extra free healing, while damaging and restoring some MP to boot. It's not efficient and it STILL works better than more focused Scholar play from my experiences.

[technole]

On yet different note...Scholars healing is inferior to the other two healers since 3.0. It's a problem with the class. Having leveled all three to lvl70, I can assure you that in the same situation, with similar gear and clearly similar ability, healing with a Scholar is more challenging than with the other two healers.

Lies. Scholar is just fine in any content in the game.

Scholar Fey Union can handle the hardest pulls in the game alone. That 480 potency life line goodness is so good. A nice handful of of subpar SCHs out there that manually heal too much and never build the gauge for such situations, or realize that the job is best played using its free one-button heals over manual.

Rouse+Whispering Dawn popped before Fey Union? Two big regens on a tank? Who would have thunk.

[kikix12]

Lies. Scholar is just fine in any content in the game.

I think you didn't read my post at all. I specifically said that with similar gear and skill level, playing Scholar is the most challenging, all other things being the same. I have nowhere said that Scholars cannot clear content. As I said, in similar situations, with similar gear and with me being the player in all three cases (meaning the same skill level) made me consider Scholar most demanding.

By no means do I consider myself a "top player" of any sort, and I'm further handicaped by excessive PING (which matters, a LOT, regardless of what anybody that had the luck of not having high PING may say). But hey, there are all sorts of people there, and the fundamental "early playthrough" should be comparable in difficulty to all the healer classes, while it is painfully clear it is not. The players skill difficulty spike should be reserved for the higher tiers of difficulty content, and it is visible even in most basic dungeons.


Reading requires some thought, who would have thunk...

[spagthetapdancer]

@lvl60 in full ilvl 270, Embrace heals for 2.4k, which is not a lot of healing on trash. if your tank is double-pulling(hell, probably in single-pulls too) in early SB dungeons and expecting that to be more than a supplement, then you have an approach that is doomed to fail. unless lvl 70 bumps it up by a lot, I can't imagine it going that far unless the tank is just plain taking VERY little damage at the time.

And on trash, your damage in is much more steady than in certain raid content. unless they're not pulling a fair deal(usually doublepulling is the sweet spot) then you should be making up the deficit with your cooldown heals.

[technole]

I think you didn't read my post at all. I specifically said that with similar gear and skill level, playing Scholar is the most challenging, all other things being the same.

I read it, you said Scholar is inferior to the other healers, calling it has problems with the class regardless of same gear level. You conveniently left it out and then added ping issues, so this is a goal post that got expanded. There is a difference between demanding and inferior.

It's not in anyway inferior even at same gear level. If you try to play it the same way as the other two healers, it will be harder. Scholar has one-button for almost every heal situation, and everytime Aetherflow is used it builds the fairy gauge which Fey Union should be liberally used, as it's the best regen of any of the three healers. Sure if DPS is slow or the tank is pretty lax about cool down use you'll have use more resources, whether it's just a tap of Excog/Lustrate. Either way, the life line adds so much wiggle room.

[RLofOBFL]

I think SCH is actually inferior in some situations Times where your cohealer dies and you're left trying to heal through an AoE and intom is on CD, you will be screwed. AST/WHM can spam medica. SCH can't. I have wiped countless times in progging savage content(esp o4s) from that exact situation. One emergency tactics isn't enough and succor heals for far too little and has way too high an mp cost. Other than that I'd say sch is pretty okay.

[technole]

I think SCH is actually inferior in some situations Times where your cohealer dies and you're left trying to heal through an AoE and intom is on CD, you will be screwed. AST/WHM can spam medica. SCH can't. I have wiped countless times in progging savage content(esp o4s) from that exact situation. One emergency tactics isn't enough and succor heals for far too little and has way too high an mp cost. Other than that I'd say sch is pretty okay.

Deployment Tactics (and whatever fairy buffs you have not on CD) off of Eos, and soil is your game changer in that situation where if there are AoEs to survive but people might not be in the best shape. Surviving the initial hit(s) and then recovering with what you have if Indom/ET is on CD.

I've soloed O4S ExDeath as SCH with the other healer dead for all of white hole and black holes, but I am i339 so that played a part I'm sure.

[Astral145]

Give tanks more damage by removing the reduced x% damage in tank stance... this will make tanks feel like a dps. This will not break the game in no way shape or form this will get more players to try out tanking.

We need parcers period. I run into way too many dps that think they are hot stuff but are taking for ever to kill mobs/boss. This puts more stress on the healers and tanks. Its 2017 and FFXIV is still in the dark ages when it comes to parcers.

END RANT...

There is no reason why a tank should die but the fact is players don't have the best tools to help them learn how to play their job well.

• A tank parcer can show damage out and how much damage is being reduced by throwing up buffs ect...

• A DPS parcer can show damage out and percentages of group buffs.

• A healer parcer can show how much damage each player is receiving so they dont over heal. It can also show how much over heal is being done and how much mitigation is being done by using shield heals...ect.

All of the above will give a clear reading as to how well you are playing at any given time. I dont care if you dont like parcers. Facts are facts half of the player base simply does not know how to play their jobs correctly. All I see on the forum is players complaining about other players not doing their jobs. Well fun fact PS4 players have no way to gauge their progress at any given time with actual numbers so as they level up they can't really see if they are improving so they guess. This leads to some of the players getting into bad habits and by the time they get to end game they are horrible players and good luck breaking the bad habits.

Basically you are telling players to get better but all the devs hand them is a hammer and screws. Will a hammer get the job done eventually but it will be a headache because you will end up losing half of the screws while banging your head in with the hammer

[Sylvina]

I think tanking is fine, I'd like them to look at DPS instead. I can do more dps more easily as a tank or healer than I can as a dps.

Lack of tank skill is just far more obvious than lack of dps skill.