Tank skill gap, should SE do more? (damage taken issues/ hate issues)

[Tint]

if the tank got hit for more damage than you can heal then the tank was either pulling more than one group or you were in savage content. i guess it's the first case.

SE can not do much about it. it's a problem caused by the community. when a tank thinks "i am not good enough, i should pull small", then the next DD or healer will run ahead and pull the next group of enemys. a tank don't really have a choice. either he pulls big or the party pulls big for him. but if he can't handle big pulls yet, it will probably lead to a wipe.

i remember when i was new at tanking and the healer and both DDs were running ahead, pulling the next group and let me die. if you pull small as a tank you do it wrong. and if you start pulling big because your teammates force you, you are wrong too, because you are not ready for these pulls.

SE can not do much about it, maybe put even more walls into the dungeons? but i don't think that is what we want...

[Inuk9]

I was leveling my WAR yesterday and got a DRK in trial roullete (susano normal). First Pull I noticed he don't put his tank stance up and I wwas w/e I'll pull. First phase was a breeze, at sword phase I got first sword and noticed he was not getting the orbs, forcing a healer to do so, after that he do not got the second sword and a wipe.

Before second pull I asked him if he knew what to do and he answered "YES". So I pulled again. Second phase again, he dind't get orbs and at sword phase a dps got the second sword preventing the wipe. At third phase he started to provoke thje boss at random times (I was tanking at deliverance at that point) but fortunelly I managed to keep the boss on me.

Thanks for those awesome jump potions Yoshida-san.

I think the job jump potions should not allow a new player to jump as a healer or a tank, just saying...

[Freyyy]

You shouldn't be spamming physick. Adlo spam is waaaaaaaaay better in situations where the tank is constantly taking big damage (like big dungeon pulls with bad tanks who don't use their defensive CDs).

[ManuelBravo]

If a tank doesn't use CD you already know your going to have a hard time. As a healer you can do those call outs and explain specially if they are a sprout and are under geared. When I heal first thing I check is tank gear, if I'm having a hard time healing and tank isn't using CD I call them out on it. Not to be criticizing them, being I also tank I back it up as tanking 101. Same works vise versa, if I'm a tank and a healer cast during a pull and is making my job harder I let them know. While personality types do play a huge role, there should always be some type of common sense, then again common sense is a dying trait.

[silverlunarfox]

That's not to say bad tanks don't exist, but a good healer can most definitely carry a bad tank, there's not really more of a skill gap there than on any other job. Bad dps, a pull will take too long, bad healer, the tank won't survive long enough, bad tank, the pull was probably larger than they were ready for. It's a group effort, everyone is contributing something and if that something is lacking, you're all going to die.

I agree with your post. There is more than one factor in play in a group.

But I will say tanks lately have a habit of not using cooldowns and blaming the healer.....It hasn't happened to me personally but it has happened to a few healer friends of mine.

You can put all the tips you want into the game but if someone doesnt even want to read their own abilities the point is moot.

At the end of the day you're the healer, so if you get kicked, enjoy the fast requeue

[Leigaon]

At the very LEAST have tips IN GAME that gives tips how to space defensive CDS and the fact THEY NEED TO BE USED!!! not when one is low in HP or depending a healer to heal everything. Currently the average DF tank is too hard/ stressful to heal...

There's..already so many in-game ways for you to learn your job. Nothing else can be done that will change that. I remember doing the Gladiator quest-line. I've never tanked in any MMO before and I was too stubborn to ask for help. I failed it a few times because I kept just DPS'ing the guys. Through reading tool tips on the abilities I had and getting some clarification on some things I didn't understand, I was able to go back and finish the quest no problem. That quest stood out to me because I understood more how to hold hate.

So, some quests do prepare you for your job and just simple things (proper rotation for example) but GuildHests did a lot too.

Basic Training: Enemy Parties & Under the Armor. Both have wonderful concepts and teach you. The problem, is these concepts can be ignored and result in no one learning anything.

Lets take now the Hall of Novice where they actually tell you what you should / could be doing in a party as a certain role. They even say healers dps if you're comfortable and meet these requirements.

The game does a great job to teach, you can always ask questions. What this game can't do is make someone care, no matter how much you adjust it. This goes for healers / tanks / dps. You're right to be frustrated.

[NinjaTaru72]

mid max they dps

This right here.

They shouldn't be worried about dps. They arnt a dd, they are a tank. Hp and mitigation is most important.

[Cenerae]

But I will say tanks lately have a habit of not using cooldowns and blaming the healer.....It hasn't happened to me personally but it has happened to a few healer friends of mine.

I do see this a lot when healing. But at the same time, I also see healers not bother using their own cooldowns when I tank. I also see WHMs that never use regen or medica II, ASTs that sit in Nocturnal the entire time and only spam Benefic spells while rarely touching their cards, and SCHs that have their fairy on sic, meaning the fairy cds often go to waste.

I also see many DPS that don't use their cooldowns outside of boss fights (if they use them at all), as well as DPS that single target on AoE pulls. And some that aren't even doing their basic rotations properly (ie, DRG that never use heavy thrust, BLM that are using switching astral buffs like they're a level 4 THM, and not using transpose, fire III or blizzard III, and so on).

Bad play is all around, let's not go singling out roles for it

[bswpayton]

I do realize people hate "dumbing down" suggestions and I know SE made small adjustments to make taking easier. However I still see lots !

What was the dungeon , one pulll Id say is harder on scholars than the other two healers , and I had to go upgrade my weapon. And thats the level 65 dungeon, the pull right before second boss Ive used everything before and unless a tank uses ultimate for a scholar healing that can be a bit tuff. And also SE needs to give drk another df cool down like four of their df cool downs are cross role they literally have nothing built in and I dont see how thats ok

[Snow_Princess]

What was the dungeon , one pulll Id say is harder on scholars than the other two healers , and I had to go upgrade my weapon. And thats the level 65 dungeon, the pull right before second boss Ive used everything before and unless a tank uses ultimate for a scholar healing that can be a bit tuff. And also SE needs to give drk another df cool down like four of their df cool downs are cross role they literallyhave nothing built in and I dont see how thats ok

Ala mhigo, did say expert. Um... he was doing the typical combine pulls, I seen bigger, but it is rare to see that attempted, some parts you can't though though because of the gating the pulls. i324 SCH, 330 wep

I had some newish tank after this in the temple of the fist (had some i300 gear) and he was overpulling for his gear/ skill level. I was able heal though it till he combine pulled (again the typical combine pull, im guessing he was just mimicked what he seen others do, not realizing he can't handle this yet) and we wiped due to the drk taking too much damage and miner hate issues, I couldn't keep everyone up. At least this was not a premade group, and just did it breaking the pull up.

For can't fix bad play sure you can, just have tanks take less damage? boost enmity values in moves? can't be that hard to adjust. What I meant by giving in game tips, it appears to me people do not know when to use the defense CDs and you NEED to use them vs only using them when hp is low.

I did not know spamming adlo was better in those situations though, still not right to kick me after a wipe and say nothing. I was talking about how I used all my CDs and physick wasn't enough to keep him up after all my CDs where used including dissipation