input delay kills the game

[chs724]

When i was starting this game half a year ago i thought it must be a bad joke how much delay this game has. The more i play the game the more i recognize how bad of an influence this really has actually. Lets take whm benediction for example. It has not only happend once to me that i castet it on a veryx low tank. Suddenly he dies but guess what the cast is on CD. WTF seriously. So we did some testing. A guildmate stood 5 meters from us and we were runing past him and he had to call the exact point when he thought we reached him. The results were terrifying and way worse than i thought. Avaerage delay was arround 0.7 seconds worst results where above 1 sec. This is almost an entire cast. So as long as this isnt fixed the game will always be a second class mmo!

How often had you been hit by a bosscast even though you had already past it long ago...

[Maku]

This is almost an entire cast. So as long as this isnt fixed the game will always be a second class mmo!

If you think this, then quit playing? I mean if it is so much inferior to a first class MMO then why pay the subscription ?

[Yasminou]

A guildmate stood 5 meters from us and we were runing past him and he had to call the exact point when he thought we reached him. The results were terrifying and way worse than i thought. Avaerage delay was arround 0.7 seconds worst results where above 1 sec. This is almost an entire cast. So as long as this isnt fixed the game will always be a second class mmo!

Who cares when someone else sees your character at a given place? What is important is when the server sees you at this place.

[Shurrikhan]

Just need to say...

Skills like Benediction don't suffer from "input delay". They are specifically designed not to generate an effect until the end of their animations. Look at Demolish or Venomous Bite. They apply the effect after the strikes have struck or the arrow has sunk in, not on the first blow or while the arrow is still in flight. The same is true of most defensive effects, which will activate at some portion through the animation, no sooner than half way and most not until its completion.

(Benediction then further suffers from both your own ping and the receiving player's ping, both. This part there is no fix for apart from more server locations to be nearer a greater percentage of the various players and their computers. Admittedly, XIV performs poorly on that front.)

[Vhailor]

Just need to say...

Skills like Benediction don't suffer from "input delay". They are specifically designed not to generate an effect until the end of their animations. Look at Demolish or Venomous Bite. They apply the effect after the strikes have struck or the arrow has sunk in, not on the first blow or while the arrow is still in flight. The same is true of most defensive effects, which will activate at some portion through the animation, no sooner than half way and most not until its completion.

(Benediction then further suffers from both your own ping and the receiving player's ping, both. This part there is no fix for apart from more server locations to be nearer a greater percentage of the various players and their computers. Admittedly, XIV performs poorly on that front.)

Two points.

(1) Instant-use abilities should apply their effects immediately. Games have to prioritize functionality over realism when there's a distinct clash between the two. Could you imagine if a first-person shooter was released where clicking the mouse button meant a quarter-second delay for your character to pull a trigger? Indeed, FFXIV already prioritizes functionality over realism in other areas, which is why in a boss fight, whether or not you get hit by AoE is dependent upon where you are when the cast finishes - not when the animation goes off.

(2) The Benediction issue (and others) are due to how SE designed their netcode. When a client machine and the server aren't in sync, the server-side state is the trusted one. This isn't typically the case in online games, particularly where PvE is concerned. I don't know if you've played Guild Wars 2, for example, but it has movement-heavy combat that feels more or less seamless. If you run up behind a monster that is currently moving, you'll hit it when it feels like you should it it. In FFXIV, if you're a melee character trying to hit a moving monster, good luck. That's an example of trusting server-state versus client-state in virtually all cases.

I'd go further and argue that SE shouldn't have taken this approach. When people compare FFXIV's responsiveness to games like WoW, or GW2, or TERA, this is what they're talking about. And it doesn't just affect combat - even things like Gathering are prone to it. Ever notice the slight delay between when you try to harvest a point, and when your character actually begins the action? That's the wait time for your client machine to send a packet to the game servers, receives confirmation of the action, and then is told by the server to engage the animation. That's bad design. The action should begin immediately, controlled entirely by the client, with a packet being sent once to the server indicating what you did. The server should briefly check how reasonable the action is based on your character's state (to avoid hackers gathering on, say, a White Mage), and then it should send back the result of your action. If you have high latency in a scenario like this, it might take a couple of seconds to see your reward from a given swing - but in the meantime, you can initiate another swing or two, and not waste your time sitting at the mining point. The server backlog will catch up when it catches up.

That would be my preference anyway. It's closer in line with what other major MMOs do, and the responsiveness difference greatly improves the feel of the game. Nobody likes wrestling with a user interface.

[XenabelleS]

It makes Titan rather difficult.

As in, if I don't move the second that the line appears under me I'm going to be knocked off even if I run to the other end of the platform when the ability goes off. I get knocked off at the angle that I am at, rather than the angle of the ability which is how I know it is something lag related. Similar actually to most AOEs - if I'm not out immediately I will still get hit by it several seconds later and when I'm no longer anywhere close to where the cast box was.

On the AOE's it is annoying. Titan's one shots are entirely frustrating especially when I am the healer.

[Dzian]

Who cares when someone else sees your character at a given place? What is important is when the server sees you at this place.

That can get annoying. Can't tell you how many times I've tried to spread with various circle aoe only for everyone to follow me. But on there screens I'm following them.

Steph ex green puddles for example. So many times does it look like everyone one is following me but as I said on there screens I'm following them.

However this is a latency thing. And much like the ops complaints they are not related to input delay or input lag. They are just general latency issues.

[Sylvain]

I don't see then fixing this issue anytime soon. It would require quite some work. Which sucks because it is one of the few things this game actually suffer. Its basically a modern mmo with a poor and badly designed coding which makes many things look clunky.

The position is a great example. It is not normal that a recent game suffer from such an insane lag input. Even wow vanilla didn't have this kind of struggles. I have rarely seen people moonwalk in wow, even with my old connexion. In FF its this opposite. Ibrarely see someone not moonwalking.

[Shurrikhan]

(1) Instant-use abilities should apply their effects immediately. Games have to prioritize functionality over realism when there's a distinct clash between the two.

(2) The Benediction issue (and others) are due to how SE designed their netcode... example[s] of trusting server-state versus client-state in virtually all cases.

Absolutely agreed. I was just pointing out that these two skills, though all the more crucial due to their "all HP" / "all damage" effects, aren't unique, and one may actually be losing out on mitigation from Rampart, Sentinel, and so forth as well without realizing it if working under the impression that effects in this game are actually instant. They're painfully slow in many, many cases.

So far the only example I know of that points out true immediacy is GL3. It refreshes, ranks up, or fails to do either due to a miss (or desync-crippled Rockbreaker) when the animation has barely even started, even if that means detecting for actual hits during the queuing period.

[Eclipsed]

Was just thinking about this, this weekend. It is so frustrating and is what makes it impossible to take this MMO seriously. I have been playing MMO's since 1999 and have raided at a high level in every major AAA release since then. Now I am not saying I am some leet world class player or anything, but I have always been considered above average by my peers at any role I have ever played in them. And avoiding mechanics has never been a problem for me. I have never been the guy who stood in fire, or failed to move, etc... But the number of times I get hit by mechanics here, when on my side I avoided them by a mile, is just ridiculous.