Solution to healers not dpsing in dungeons

[koichiresh]

I'm mainly a summoner DPS (but heal from time to time), and you know it's a problem when as a DPS I have to help with resurrections and pathetic curing abilities when the tank decides to pull 3-4 trash mobs. It's really a waste of time when the Tank decides that the healer has time to DPS when the tanks themselves are causing the agony TO THEMSELVES. How are you going to blame the healer when you are setting them up to pretty much be cornered to listening to your pathetic excuse of an instruction. If you are blaming other party members for your own rushing and exceptions, you should just drop being a tank, period.

[Gohlar]

I recently returned and have been playing a healer doing dungeons. I was worried people would want me to only heal. I really enjoy doing both.

[Eloah]

hurtful and uncalled for response

Okay I decided to read this thread since it popped up for me, but I had to respond the second I saw your post; not even 5 posts in nice.

You are a jerk, and I'm using that word cause the word(s) I'd like to use might get me banned.

For your information, I happen to know a family that plays together, 2 sons, and their 60 year old MOTHER. And all 3 of them are awesome and do raids often. So before you try and mock someone's skills, "oh, clearly they suck" think. Would you call a person in a wheelchair lazy, for not walking?

Edit: fixed the question so it wasn't open ended.

[Claire_Pendragon]

While I do DPS, I can see why most healers would refuse to do it now, as most tanks are so undergeared and poorly using CDS or nto at all, and always die in a single GCD.
Pretty much every run, and i do mean EVERY run, is pretty much;
Tank pulls, goes down way too quick, have to consume oGCDs at the start, to "catch up", start with cast time reduction 10%, heals increased by 20%, ground regen, and normal regen on the tank, now that they are currently at full, start casting cure2, right as cure2 ends, and it triggers the heal, they are slightly above half HP, spam pressing cure2, waiting for the GCD to be ready. Casting cure2... and mid way or right as the cast finishes, tanks dead.
The GCD is just way too long to get any more "healing" off in time, much less DPS.

If DPS wasnt taking up the GCD, then this would be a different argument.

There just isnt time to cast DPS spells in most groups, so even if YOU are a decent tank, most tanks right now arent.
Heck, ive had some decent ones, with decent gear, and decent CD usage, die to just 3 mobs.
they are sitting at 90-99% hp for a while, I think, ok, what is one single stone spell going to hurt?
Right as the cast bar is about done, they are suddenly below half HP. If I used all my CDs the prior pull, which is usually the case when they tend to pull big, I can only cast cure2, and hope it finishes in time, nope. dead.

While this wasnt really an issue in 3.x series, this was a lot more common in 2.x series before they nerfed the amount of dmg tanks take in dungeons for 3.x (though there were undergeared tanks who tried big pulls in DPS stances, which was just as bad.)

So Im also reluctant to DPS, until I see my tank actually able to survive the ~2GCDs it takes to land a damage spell, and followed up by a cure spell.
(Swift cast is not much help either, as some tanks go down even faster than that.)

Maybe one tank out of 20+ dungeon runs might be ok enough to land some dmg occasionally, but even then, ive yet to have a tank in the 60+ range decent enough to do damage, w/o risk of a wipe.

TL;DR it only takes ONE GCD for a tank to go from full Hp to dead.
(doesnt help DPS like to take hits too, so if you even THINK of doing an AoE heal, or spending 1 GCD to heal them or yourself, you're risking the tank dieing. Also dont think of using oGCDs or else your stuck unable to save the tank, when spike dmg suddenly brings them to 1% hp mid GCD)

The ONLY reliable way to keep a tank up in 60+, is to PRECAST cures, even if they are at full HP.
The only reliable way to DPS, is when there are 2 or less mobs left.
(Id argue 3, but ive seen some bad tanks who wont CD for 3 mobs, or wont stun 1 of the mobs when able, leading to nearly being crit to death in a single GCD)

[HoodRat]

Would you call a person in a wheelchair lazy?

If they're being lazy, then yes.

[Eloah]

If they're being lazy, then yes.

Ideally I'd like to make a snappy comeback, but I'll admit, since my question was open ended, I only have myself to blame. I have since revised my question. Both a Kudos and a Really" at the same time, lol.

[Maeka]

snip

What kind of squishy tanks have you been running with, that die in one GCD to 3 mobs without cooldowns? *blinks* That's some serious fail there. I just ran Ala Mihgo earlier, and I'm wearing the stuff you get from the Lv70 PLD quest, with 2 Omega accessories and the rest is Verity. Hardly the best geared tank around. I was doing 5-6 mobs at once with no cooldowns (I only pop those if I see the healer is struggling, or if it is an actual big pull or something dangerous actually in that pull).

But then I'm a bit more quick to reach for the Clemency button even if the healer is healing me because I know it makes their life a lot easier and I usually have MP to spare, and I like to help them.

Really, though, I cannot imagine a tank dying in one GCD to 3 mobs. Does this really happen? I've never seen it, even when I run as WHM. I've never seen this, ever. The closest was actually today, a tank in Amdapor who decided to pull FOUR GROUPS AT ONCE who had to pop Hallowed Ground just to give me enough time to land two Cure2s to save their life. Well, they botched the pull right after the first boss; they were pulling so ridiculously many mobs that they were using potions on cooldown just to stay alive. Well, she went JUST too far and she wound up dropping dead in the middle of a Cure2 cast. I assume her Hallowed Ground was down and she was expecting it to be up, or her potion was on cooldown or something, dunno. But she was dead before I could even cast. lol.

This is the kind of mentality I hate with a passion. There is no reason to be in such a hurry. The "precious" few seconds the tank would have saved by pulling 4 groups at once were lost several times over in the time it took us all to rez and run back for another try at that pull. We killed exactly zero mobs in the whole fiasco and it set us back 3 minutes+. If she had just stopped one group short, we would have saved a lot more time.

This is such a pointless thread lol. Everyone's arguing about a healer not doing damage? last time I checked if someone is healing even if they did throw out a damage spell it does barely any damage compared to, you know, an actual DPS class.

Like someone said at the beginning of the thread, if nobody died and you cleared the dungeon, why is anyone moaning.

I'd understand if a healer just wasn't healing. But if they are and they are doing their class role (healing), then this entire thread is a waste of everyone's time.

Let healers heal
Let tanks take damage
Let DPS deal damage

Not difficult.

While I do not agree with or condone the "HEALER MAX DPS!!!!" Mentality, I will have to admit that at least as a WHM, Stone IVs hurt. They hit surprisingly hard, and Aero III is actually a decent AoE. Holy can sting a bit, and if you get 6+ mobs, you deal a rather large chunk of damage and it even AoE stuns to boot.

But... finding time to cast it... not so easy if there's that many mobs.

Again, WHM can put out a decent amount of damage, but damage is always secondary to the main reason they are there, and if someone dies for lack of heals, then it is the healer's fault, period. Yes, maybe a tank decides to pull too much and fail to use cooldowns, but if he drops dead while the healer was DPSing, the healer is the one in the wrong.

[Maeka]

Out of curiosity, how do "heal only" healers stay awake in four man content? Without pushing myself on damage I would be snoring.

Not all of us have low attention spans like people who have certain mental conditions have.

I, for one, am a relatively healthy and normal person who doesn't fall asleep if I'm idle for more than 0.5 seconds.

And I say this, as being a person who has sleep apnea who is prone to daytime drowsiness, enough that I have almost wrecked my car a couple times due to drowsiness while on the road.

[Claire_Pendragon]

What kind of squishy tanks have you been running with, that die in one GCD to 3 mobs without cooldowns? *blinks* That's some serious fail there. I just ran Ala Mihgo earlier, and I'm wearing the stuff you get from the Lv70 PLD quest, with 2 Omega accessories and the rest is Verity. Hardly the best geared tank around. I was doing 5-6 mobs at once with no cooldowns (I only pop those if I see the healer is struggling, or if it is an actual big pull or something dangerous actually in that pull).

Literally 99% of them.
Of course most of them are in i255-i270 gear, and usually the entry level to enter the dungeon.

the only tank I ever seen not go down from multiple crits at once, in a single GCD, was Lv70, in their AF, synced down.
Still took a butt load of dmg if they pulled 2 groups of mobs, and didnt use CDs though, but at least they didnt die faster than they were being healed with my CDs.

pretty much if im out of CDs, the tanks going to die. Which happens plenty, if they pull enough mobs, and sprint to the next group.

but its usually undergeared, non CD using tanks who pull 2+ groups anyways.
and most of the time, 3 mobs doesnt global a tank, it just occasionally does happen, or at least come close.

the number of times ive seen them die was only twice, but the number of times ive seen them go from full hp to1 or 2% hp, while im mid pre-casting cure, is like once per 2 dungeon runs. Which I can only assume is due to all 3 monsters landing crits, or even direct hit crits, at the same time. But it happens enough to panic me. Luckily I usually have 1 oGCD ready for 3 mob pulls, but usually not if it was just after a 4+ mob pull.
The only other time ive seen this happen, and repeatedly the same dungeon, and before Lv60, was when the tank was also standing in AoEs. I didnt notice until near the end of the dungeon, as i was a bit panicked from the start of the dungeon spamming heals to keep them up. The Tank told me to stop DPSing, which I hadnt even cast any DPS spells, since there was no free time, and the RDM told them off, saying they were watching them stand in AoEs the whole dungeon. Which the tank said so what, they were a tank. I started noticing how often tanks stand in AoEs as well, like bardums run, or w/e its called, the walls do some serious dmg to tanks, and you have VERY little time to dodge the aoes. If a tank fails to dodge the 3 AoEs on them, when all 3 walls target the tank with them, will 1 shot them, even with rampart up. Seen that before, of course on the tanks screen, he's dodged it, so he just complains to me instead. Despite us all seeing he got hit.

[KouenElfrit]

Most of what I'm reading in this thread is mostly just how tanks pull an inappropriate amount of mobs. It's all about finding the happy medium.