I was wondering, why does people count dps instead of total potency?

[Fannah]

Hello everyone

I've seen video with people getting high DPS score while having their best skill criting 90% of the time in the video and then post it on youtube. And I feel there's something wrong about it.

Honestly, I think saying each class can bring X dps based on the rng and being like "look at what this class can bring" looks kinda weird to me. Even in team, they will say they reached X or Y, but maybe their allies just used their team buff at the right moment, or the boss had a weak spot on one of his phase and they better used their burst at that moment (which is a good thing of course).

Why can't people just talk about total potency made, with their "Attack" stat and their crit stat beside? So we will be more able to compare classes. Is there any program that is able to just calculate the total potency you inflicted? and without counting crits?

I just mean a crit is not something skilled itself. So I won't think someone is better than another based on the fact he did a crit and not the other. We should get a way to talk about total potency inflicted to compare classes. So we won't be like "oh this one reached 4k dps, and the other one 3.6k (while the 1rst one maybe crit 35% of the time while the second crit 15% of the time, but both have as much crit stat, and maybe one crited on the best move and the other one on the worse).

I do believe it would be more fair to talk about total potency "inflicted". So we can really be like "oh wow you did all that during the fight, you really optimized your character dmg", which would be something :
- removing the crit rng
- the random dmg on a same skill in the same conditions
- the fact we have a different equipement
- the random way some allies use their ally buffs
So we at least know if we are using the character right even before having the best equipment.

(of course, total dps is important, but I believe it would be nice to also know the other things I've stated to talk about balance).

[Inuk9]

This is a RPG. In RPGs luck is a factor too.

[Adriosh]

Many theory crafters crunch numbers based off of PPS, and maximizing that number within buff windows, at the end of the day everyone likes hearing about 4.2k parses instead of pps parses, also there is a little check box in a well known program that we all use to parse potency instead of damage.

[Fannah]

Inuk9, I didn't say the opposite. But if you read this part of the forum, people talk about balance of classes by comparing those "rng" numbers. It just feels wrong to just take those random numbers and talk about balance. Which is why talking about "Total DPS / Toal PPS (potency per second) / Attack stats / Crit stats / number of crits" would feel more interesting. And RNG doesn't really show if you're playing well or not, which is frustrating if you just don't know if people are better than you or not.

Adriosh : thanks a lot, I'm relieved to know some program are made for this (and even more theory crafters use those numbers ^^) (are we not allowed to mention this program? I mean SE said we can use parsers, they just ban those who use them to trash talk people they play with).

[Yorumi]

Average dps is more important than potency. Crits can cause anomalous parses but in an average they won't. A random event ceases to be random over and infinite number of trials. Thus if someone has a 35% crit rate, you can guarantee on average 35 crits out of every 100 attacks. You can factor that into your damage. What kills a target is damage, not potency. Take for example if two players were playing the same class with the same ilvl but had focused their stats differently you could possibly see a sizeable gap in dps. If this was true of everyone across an entire raid you could be missing over 1000dps or more. "But we're doing the same potency per second" wouldn't cut it on an enrage.

Another example to chew on, buffs don't always align perfectly, perhaps it's worth delaying a skill for buff cooldowns. If you don't delay the skill you may get higher potency per second, but lower dps.

To sum it up crits arn't random with proper testing, dps is what kills targets, potency per second can be misleading, and the best measure of a properly built and played character is the one with the maximum average dps.

[Yorumi]

Inuk9, I didn't say the opposite. But if you read this part of the forum, people talk about balance of classes by comparing those "rng" numbers. It just feels wrong to just take those random numbers and talk about balance.

the biggest mistake you're making is believing crits are random and thus cannot be counted on. Over more than one parse crits are no more random than main stat, weapon damage, det or anything else.

[xyaie]

Theorycrafting is almost always done in PPS. That being said, If a level 70 normally geared paladin and a level 70 normally geared SAM both do 100 potency, do they do the same DPS? (note: if I have a 10% damage buff we could say 110 potency, so we arent going to consider that).

A tank has substancially lower main stat after the change and historically bards have had lower weapon damage, iirc paladins sword + shield is less stats than WAR's 2 handed axe.

While PPS is easier to work with, the end goal, and what we ultimately care about, is DPS. "Random" or "Luck" isnt a factor, if you have enough parses to average out the outliers.

[Inuk9]

the biggest mistake you're making is believing crits are random and thus cannot be counted on. Over more than one parse crits are no more random than main stat, weapon damage, det or anything else.

This.

Potency per second is usefull when using in theorycrafting, so we can learn best rotations. But DPS is the final result of combined rotation + stats(including crits). It's the ultimate result that tells you if you build your character correctly and learned proper rotations.

[Fannah]

the biggest mistake you're making is believing crits are random and thus cannot be counted on. Over more than one parse crits are no more random than main stat, weapon damage, det or anything else.

I made no mistake as I said to count everything, not only DPS or only potency, you didn't read it all :/

If a level 70 normally geared paladin and a level 70 normally geared SAM both do 100 potency, do they do the same DPS? (note: if I have a 10% damage buff we could say 110 potency, so we arent going to consider that).

A tank has substancially lower main stat after the change and historically bards have had lower weapon damage, iirc paladins sword + shield is less stats than WAR's 2 handed axe.

But I said to show Potency, with "Attack" stat, and crit stat beside (on my very 1rst post of this topic). Of course Potency can't be counted alone for getting from where the damages come from, but it's all about 2 ideas : knowing how to play better and what to balance. No one get the idea I want to give. Someone with ilvl 314 can suck and deal more than one with ilvl 260 just because of the equipments. Getting potency means that you actually can show that your rotation is technically better. And having the potency counting crit will also show that crits have been more or less efficient according to what skill did crit or not. And of course, you still get the overall dps to give like a final number to all the calculation which will talk better to people. So yea it's not all about comparing class between them but also knowing what potencialy, your class can reach as total potency (while still having the other stats beside).

While PPS is easier to work with, the end goal, and what we ultimately care about, is DPS. "Random" or "Luck" isnt a factor, if you have enough parses to average out the outliers.

You misunderstood, I said people make a video or post a score on reddit when they actually look like very lucky with their crit rate, post it and are like "X class rotation ; ilvlY ; Zdps" and people will say, based on one video, that X class can bring X dps. But for exemple, I believe succeeding 90% of your Fell cleave, exactly the skill having the most potency of all your skills is having luck and misleading on a score people will think they should get on average. It's just wrong and people will take one video (so only one score/one data) someone made (and of course the best he made, so it's nothing about average).

This.

Potency per second is usefull when using in theorycrafting, so we can learn best rotations. But DPS is the final result of combined rotation + stats(including crits). It's the ultimate result that tells you if you build your character correctly and learned proper rotations.

Not "this" x) It's frustrating as you are several to misread me. I said they should make a total potency score --> with and without crit.
So the program could be able to know that with X stat of crit, your skill making a base 200potency will become like 357 potency, for exemple. So it would be still taken in count. And it would still show the total of DPS which is important as well, I already said it :/

[Alistaire]

Easy answer: not everyone's gcd timer is the same. NIN has a speed boost, MNK has a different speed boost that ramps up, different gearsets have different skillspeed/spellspeed, also latency can delay your next skill when ogcd skills are used.

Why make the metric more vague (by saying potency) when all that does is make it more inaccurate? Damage per second is the exact metric needed and is as precise as such a metric can be.