Mandatory Combos

[Ogulbuk]

Why are we even allowed to execute some abilities outside of a combo? There is no benefit of using Main or Storm Eye if they are not ready. Their out of combo raw potency, potency per second and potency per TP are a disaster. The only reason to even allow me to use combo actions outside a combo seems to be a developer cosmic joke on uninformed players.

Can we just make these mandatory? For example, can we make the use of Maim require Heavy Swing had been used before?

If one of the goals in Stormblood is to narrow the gap between skilled and unskilled players, I think a good first start would be to limit how players can cripple their rotations. They still will need to know not to throw something like a Fracture mid combo, but at least that is something that may be considered a solid reason to break a combo.

Or maybe someone can illuminate me of any situation where I would want to use a combo action outside a combo?

[Aladire]

I am sorry if this looks like a thread redirect or hijacking, but this questions is being discussed here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-see-it-in-PVE

The concept of consolidating the combos is the same thing as locking out abilities like you discussed, but with 1 added thing and that is to have 1 button to press instead of multiple.

[zXr]

Simplified systems lead to automation, aside from that taking away the 'choice' to mess up and still do some amount of damage or mess up and freak out that you stopped doing damage...or realize it after the wipe because you are a 1h playing fool!

But hey they could implement a 'shame bunny' variant for all jobs!

[Vespar]

Part of the reason I love XIV is that what I press matters and sets me apart from another job w/ the same gear! Its not just a mindless zergfest! You actually have to think about where and when to use your actions. A good many of the people who mess up or dont perform combos correctly do so because they dont READ their tooltips and set up their bar accordingly or they just dont pay attention and mash buttons..

And while we're on a similar subject, if we make it so that actions execute in succession just by mashing the same button over and over again (like they intend to do with PvP), I feel like the 'fun' would get sucked out of it.

If they took away the ability to correctly or incorrectly perform combos, I would lose interest. Their wouldnt be any challenge in it. "Just mash a button whenever you want! it wont matter!"
NO! I want the CHOICE of how I play and I try to play well because I don't want to be a run of the mill player.
Shorten the core vs casual playing field if they must, but don't make us cookie cutters of everyone else!

[aesteval]

How do you go about defining which combos are mandatory? While you mention some actions that you don't think have a use outside of combo, there are others that do have selective use (but which should not be repeated endlessly.)

[Ogulbuk]

Part of the reason I love XIV is that what I press matters and sets me apart from another job w/ the same gear! Its not just a mindless zergfest! You actually have to think about where and when to use your actions. A good many of the people who mess up or dont perform combos correctly do so because they dont READ their tooltips and set up their bar accordingly or they just dont pay attention and mash buttons..

If they took away the ability to correctly or incorrectly perform combos, I would lose interest. Their wouldnt be any challenge in it. "Just mash a button whenever you want! it wont matter!"
NO! I want the CHOICE of how I play and I try to play well because I don't want to be a run of the mill player.
Shorten the core vs casual playing field if they must, but don't make us cookie cutters of everyone else!

Being able to follow a glowie ant trail on your icons don't really make you that great at deciding what you are doing either, so don't try patting yourself that well on the back for that.

Having actions require combo status to even activate still does not mean you don't get to chose what else you do next, especially if combo system was expanded with it. Multiple combos with multiple situational usage would make combo chain selection an actual choice. Allowing players to use the third step of a combo for just 100 potency with no benefit is just terrible game design.

Either it should be mandatory, or there should be some benefit from doing so (fewer aspects of the action tied to combo action requirements.)

[Ogulbuk]

How do you go about defining which combos are mandatory? While you mention some actions that you don't think have a use outside of combo, there are others that do have selective use (but which should not be repeated endlessly.)

Repeating a combo over and over is another story. I used war as example, and it's a good one for your request too, because you should not be doing that combo over and over, only every time the self +dmg and -res expire (or are close enough to expire.)

I main DRG and War, both need to use at least two different combos to be effective, with various non-combo actions also mixed in.

My main issue is with using those abilities outside of combo action. Either they should not be usable, or there should be a point for them to be used. Maim could always land its damage buff (think that's changing to the -res in Stormblood) with the only combo action benefit being the added potency. At least then it would make sense to activate the thing outside a combo.

[Vespar]

Having actions require combo status to even activate still does not mean you don't get to chose what else you do next, especially if combo system was expanded with it. Multiple combos with multiple situational usage would make combo chain selection an actual choice. Allowing players to use the third step of a combo for just 100 potency with no benefit is just terrible game design.

Combo actions that enable based off various conditions are there for a reason. Its part of the way that most jobs function. And yes, they do require some THOUGHT on the part of the user, and they can be what makes one player differ from another. Not just in terms of dmg, but also in play styles.

As Bard, I could apply Straight shot which lasts for 20 secs. If it procs right away and Straighter Shot becomes available, I could choose to toss it out right away to do the extra dmg or I could choose to wait until my buff is close to going down to refresh it when I need to rather than having to recast straight shot which takes more time. That's up to me to decide.

Or take BLM... Firestarter is a huge deal for BLM and its a fundamental part of how BLM is meant to be played. In the later levels, casting Fire can cause 'firestarter' to proc which allows an instant casted Fire3 and equates to more dmg. If we were to just remove firestarter altogether BLM's would be forced to just spam cast Fire 3 over and over without the benefit of an instant ability that they could use for more dmg, or hold onto for a second and use in case they know they are going to have to move, etc...

My point is those combo-enabled actions & abilities exist for a purpose already. They have added benefits, you just have to think about what they are. If you cant figure out the right way to use them, then thats on you!

[Ogulbuk]

Combo actions that enable based off various conditions are there for a reason. Its part of the way that most jobs function. And yes, they do require some THOUGHT on the part of the user, and they can be what makes one player differ from another. Not just in terms of dmg, but also in play styles.

You and I define thought very differently. 1-2-3 is not exactly thinking. The main reason they are still there is the game never got rid of them after actual-thought-requirement was introduced.

As Bard, I could apply Straight shot which lasts for 20 secs. If it procs right away and Straighter Shot becomes available, I could choose to toss it out right away to do the extra dmg or I could choose to wait until my buff is close to going down to refresh it when I need to rather than having to recast straight shot which takes more time. That's up to me to decide.

.... yes... that is for you to decide, but that is not a Combo Action.

My point is those combo-enabled actions & abilities exist for a purpose already. They have added benefits, you just have to think about what they are. If you cant figure out the right way to use them, then thats on you!

You are missing the point: those are not combo actions you seem to describe. Warriors, Dragoons, Paladins, those are combo actions, and they are not "added benefits". Using those actions without the combo is always a self-dps nerf. Repeating Heavy Swing over and over non stop will always be superior to ever using one of the Warrior combo "boosted" actions out of combo.

[Vespar]

You are missing the point: those are not combo actions you seem to describe. Warriors, Dragoons, Paladins, those are combo actions, and they are not "added benefits". Using those actions without the combo is always a self-dps nerf. Repeating Heavy Swing over and over non stop will always be superior to ever using one of the Warrior combo "boosted" actions out of combo.

So wait. you want for example WAR's 1-2-3 actions to be removed in favor of just mashing 1 button for Heavy Swing, etc? So... like what they are going to do with PvP in 4.0?

So you want the game to become a mindless button masher? I hope you have a mechanical keyboard because that poor '1' key is gonna need replacing alot.

And the combo actions weren't meant to be used solo. Thats how XIV has been since release. Why are we griping about that now? That being said, I dont think it needs to become mash 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 repeatedly until our eyes bleed from it. I like how the combos work. I already have seen plenty of people who dont read their tooltips or set up their bars properly, spamming actions out of order. Mashing 1 over and over may make it easier for some of them sure, but its still not going to make them a good player. All it will do is make the rest of us bored as all hell.

It sounds like to me the real issue here is players not READING and organizing their bars in a way that favors using their "combo".