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  1. #11
    Player
    Roth_Trailfinder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,835
    Character
    Roth Trailfinder
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Rhaegar, you honestly sound like someone who either did not go through the process of getting Favors done, OR who had friends to craft and meld the i170 favor-made gathering gear for you when you provided the favor materials.

    You CANNOT have it both ways : cheaper goods on the board, and limited material supply.

    If you have an abundant supply, then the costs come down, not only of the goods you want to gather and sell, but also of the gear that you need to be able to do so. Increase the supply of the gear, and (through Spiritbonding and conversion) you increase the supply of the materia you need to meld onto it. There have been other increases to materia supply as well.

    Conversely, reducing the supply of materials drives the cost to make stuff up. It either gets to the point where it is not worth making something (something is worth 10k gil but costs 25k gil to make) OR the something is so expensive there is only a limited market to sell it, which also reduces the number of the item crafted and thus the number of materials needed by the market.

    Regardless of the availability of materials, and their cost, it will take a large amount of gathering to recoup the cost of your gear if you are not crafting it yourself. If you factor in opportunity costs, the costs truly become staggering.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    RhaegarFFXIFenrir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    254
    Character
    Asagiri Shirogane
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Maybe I'm being obtuse. I don't want CHEAPER materials on the boards...I want the materials to be MORE expensive.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    Zojha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,565
    Character
    Lodestone Bait
    World
    Pandaemonium
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir View Post
    All I really want to see is a reason to gather besides playing a gatherer, because we don't see any return or benefit to playing these jobs as they stand now.
    And the first thing that sprung to your mind was:"Please pay me more to put up with this shit!" instead of "Please make this shit less shitty!" ?

    I'll never understand this "Diadem" mentality, whether it comes from the devs or players >_>

    I never hear people ask why bother playing a DoW/DoM if it's not profitable or demand reasons to do so. How about we brainstorm how to put Gathering on the same level instead of talking compensations? Maybe talk about gameplay design, engagement, challenge and satisfaction? Crafting and gathering both could benefit from that - People rarely ask how to make the content worth doing for its own sake, only how to drain more gil from other players through it.

    Recouping losses is a symptom of that: You shouldn't have to make losses playing the content you like in the first place, whether that's DoW/DoM, DoH or DoL - Tome/Scrip armor should suffice. "Top tier" should primarily be a measure of skill, not gear - real time decisions can help a lot there. You'd fight bots in the process as well, as bots don't cope with complexity well. That's the kind of discussion that would be helpful and healthy - asking for more money just perpetuates the issues.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player ManuelBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milpitas , CA
    Posts
    2,142
    Character
    Shinigami Zetta
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90

    DoL and DoH is more of on the side actions

    DoH and DoL did get some attention in Heavensward even now with new trade ins. I'm pretty sure they will somewhat touch it later on with expansion, if anything I rather they spend more time on combat based content or housing >.> if you think about it it's more of a creative branch to save / make gil. Give players access to non combative roles or just to try something different on downtime as well. I love crafting and gathering as a down time and so far the stories have been interesting.
    (1)
    Last edited by ManuelBravo; 04-11-2017 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Charater limit

  5. #15
    Player
    RhaegarFFXIFenrir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    254
    Character
    Asagiri Shirogane
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zojha
    And the first thing that sprung to your mind was:"Please pay me more to put up with this shit!" instead of "Please make this shit less shitty!" ?
    I really wish you wouldn't put words in my mouth or assume you know what my thoughts are. I never asked that we be "paid." Maybe I'm just tired of watching a certain segment bring in fist fulls of gil where as others of us put in just as much work to bring in a pittance. I'm trying to be constructive here and some people have brought up some valid observations. You, on the other hand, are trying to make me sound selfish and unreasonable. Then I look at your job distribution to see if I can figure out where you're coming from and I see:
    . If you don't gather, and barely craft, how can you possibly contribute to a discussion on making DoL jobs more relevant?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo
    Give players access to non combative roles or just to try something different on downtime as well. I love crafting and gathering as a down time and so far the stories have been interesting.
    I can completely concur with this statement. I gather anymore to pass the time, and to prepare for Stormblood. There's a limited time right after expansion release where people who focus on gathering can make a killing. After that, we're pretty much relegated to making enough gil to cover our teleport costs for 2 years. There's very little gil to be made from it, and gathering basically serves the purpose of gearing up the jobs to gather more stuff. If you're looking to get rich though, crafting or selling clears are about your only options. I certainly have ideas on how to make DoL more interesting to play, but think that that's a separate issue best handled in another thread.

    I don't think it selfish at all to ask for a larger slice of the pie than gatherers currently get. We put in a lot of work gearing up. Gathering is just as time intensive as crafting. Hell, fishers really get screwed in that most of their fish won't bring in more than npc cost.

    I'm sorry if some people seem to be upset that the "plebs" are getting out of line, but for a lot of us, gathering is a means towards an income. Porting around from zone to zone and hitting one button repeatedly is hardly what one would call immersive or fun, and it's frustrating when we can spend an hour gathering up materials that will bring a grand total of 10k to us, and then watch some crafter turn that 10k into 400k in 3 minutes.
    (0)
    Last edited by RhaegarFFXIFenrir; 04-11-2017 at 03:54 AM.

  6. #16
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    4,550
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    I really want an increase in gathered items. Not to make things more expensive. You just need *so much* to even do basic HW crafts. I got two levels in the high 50s on my miner just getting the hardsilver items I would need for a single stack of ingots. Thankfully I can send my retainers out for things now, but it's still a huge pain in the butt to only get a smidgen of what you need per node.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezerius View Post
    Let's all remember what happened when SE tried to make gathered mats hard/timesink-y in 3.0.
    Oh right, that's it. High-level crafting DIED.
    To be fair, this was, in part, because of the unbelievable steaming pile of crap that was the crafted combat gear. They were every bit as hard/expensive to craft as the crafter gear of the time, but you'd need to be braindead to actually use the stuff, even max-melded. SE's paranoia about players "buying" clears in Alexander Gordius (Savage) through max-melded crafted gear nearly killed crafting altogether. Basically, for the entirety of 3.0, and I think 3.1 as well, the only point of crafting was to make gear for crafters and gatherers. It was patently ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    I really want an increase in gathered items. Not to make things more expensive. You just need *so much* to even do basic HW crafts. I got two levels in the high 50s on my miner just getting the hardsilver items I would need for a single stack of ingots. Thankfully I can send my retainers out for things now, but it's still a huge pain in the butt to only get a smidgen of what you need per node.
    The increase in required items between ARR recipes and HW recipes was clearly a deliberate design decision. What, exactly, they were trying to accomplish, I'm not certain... Possibly to drive up the price of materials, so that Gatherers would be better rewarded for their efforts? Regardless, when all leather recipes start requiring three skins instead of one, and lumber requires five logs instead of three, it's obviously not an accident. As such, it's unlikely that SE plans on increasing gathering yield to make things easier.

    As for what Stormblood holds, I'm wondering if they plan on taking crafting ANOTHER step up. Five skins per leather! Eight logs per lumber!
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player
    Roth_Trailfinder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,835
    Character
    Roth Trailfinder
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir View Post
    Maybe I'm being obtuse. I don't want CHEAPER materials on the boards...I want the materials to be MORE expensive.
    Do you want your gathering gear to be more expensive?

    I took a guess, and figured you would answer that question "No".

    However, the two go hand-in-hand. Cheaper mats means cheaper gear (lower cost to produce). More expensive mats means more expensive gear (higher cost to produce). Higher mats also lend themselves towards the crafter going and gathering the materials personally, rather than paying someone else to do it, which hinders your monetary inflow based on not having as many people interested in your gathered materials.

    Either way, you are looking at a significant effort in gathering enough materials to recoup the cost of your gear. Which, if I'm not mistaken, was one of the main reasons for your suggestions : you want to be able to show a profit after factoring in the cost to buy and meld your gear.
    (2)

  9. #19
    Player
    Nezerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,670
    Character
    Rintha Elenah
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    To be fair, this was, in part, because of the unbelievable steaming pile of crap that was the crafted combat gear. They were every bit as hard/expensive to craft as the crafter gear of the time, but you'd need to be braindead to actually use the stuff, even max-melded..
    Some of the world first Gordias statics did use that crafted combat gear, though. I don't think I'd consider those players as "braindead". Even if the combat gear was similar in iLvl compared to how they handled 3.2 and 3.4, I don't think crafting would've been any different during 3.0/3.1, due to how much of a pain it was to do Favors, meaning all the gear would be way expensive for the average non-crafter.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    54
    Sorry for my poor english

    They already said there no much more they can do with DoL.

    DoL will always make lower gil

    DoL Only and selling on mb items ( Make lower gil out of the 3 picks)
    Vs
    DoH Only buying mats off MB and making items to sell ( Make more gil but its a risk if break or nq)
    Vs
    DOL and DoH together farm mats and make items.

    At each patch if new items on node hq go for high price because it used to make harder items but once crafter get high stats they dont need alot of HQ mats so much DoL can get alot of NQ so the price drops.
    (1)

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