SMN Rotation/priority question for endgame raids/content

[SeriousxSarcasm]

On most aoe packs, MP is never something you'd run out of, so not taking advantage of the MP reduction on Ruin 3 isn't a loss.
Then on basic potency (between brackets, includes DWT buff): Blizzard 2 = 50 (55) potency per target, Ruin 3 is 200 (220) potency, this means B2 is a better choice in terms of raw potency at 5 targets or more, and equal at 4.

Early deathflare is a thing as well, you want the deathflare to actually hit when most of those mobs are still alive. If 1 mob dies before you use it, your deathflare does 440 less potency (always buffed by DWT after all). Using Ruin 3/blizzard 2 inside DWT instead of outside, doesn't weigh up against that potency loss.

The Blizzard II doesn't really matter to me, I've just never seen someone make it a priority compared to other abilities lol.

The reason I say early deathflare gives me hives is 'cause he mentioned then still needing Ruin III to kill them off. There is also the 10% DPS boost to your spells while under Dreadwyrm (which is not something to sneeze at if you're going the tridisaster/contagion route), why would you Deathflare early instead of taking advantage of Ruin III's potency boost while you still have it? :/ I understand the early part (no one likes to see stacks go to waste), I just don't understand using it so early that you didn't actually kill the things... does that make any sense? Unless I've misinterpreted something somewhere, but I didn't think so. If someone is tridisastering under trance, that's another story, you're still doing lots of extra damage after, but he mentioned he never uses raging or tri unless in emergencies, which makes me believe his only boost is coming from Trance, sooooo. That's why I see it as wasteful.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

I generally only break out the Bliz 2 method when the other DPS doesn't know how to find the AoE button... or I've been level synced to 50.

Ok! This explains it then! This I can understand, but Bliz II in a regular 60 rotation, that sounds weird as hell to me since it's usually unnecessary. And if someone does use it regularly (as the person has said they do, that it's their go-to ability choice), how do you know they're not peeing their DPS away on a mob of 3/4?

nvm, it's all rhetorical anyway lol. So long as everyone's doing the damages I guess it doesn't matter.

[Silverquick]

No... what I said was... I use Ruin 3 to kill off the remaining ones.... after the Painflares, DoTs, and Deathflare... which generally there are 3 or less of them after the original 6-10 have been wiped out.

You apparently aren't reading close enough.

And no.... I didn't say... I never use Tri Disaster and Raging Strikes except in emergencies... I said I use it when it is most appropriate ... and safe to do so that it won't hose the rest of the raid or instance...

DPS while important... is secondary to winning.

And not getting caught up in the minutia... and gauging the situation properly is more important in the end.

[Vulcwen]

...

Again, my assumption is that you can spam ruin 3 out of DWT until it dies without MP constraints, as AoE packs don't live long enough, and afterwards you can regen MP before the next fight. You want deathflare to hit for it's maximum potential, because it's massive potency, it won't hit a target that's already dead, so you lose DPS from hitting it too late. You also don't get maximum potential if you use it when everything is at such low HP that it's massive overkill. You get far more DPS out of using deathflare at full potential than you'd get from the 10% buff of using other abilities under DWT than if you'd just use it after the deathflare.

So basically, you want to deathflare as late as possible while still getting it under maximum potential, if you use it after a mob died, you used it too late, if nothing was at about to die, and you use it early, then you wasted buff potential.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

snip. You want deathflare to hit for it's maximum potential, because it's massive potency, it won't hit a target that's already dead, so you lose DPS from hitting it too late. You also don't get maximum potential if you use it when everything is at such low HP that it's massive overkill. You get far more DPS out of using deathflare at full potential than you'd get from the 10% buff of using other abilities under DWT than if you'd just use it after the deathflare.

So basically, you want to deathflare as late as possible while still getting it under maximum potential, if you use it after a mob died, you used it too late, if nothing was at about to die, and you use it early, then you wasted buff potential.

Hmm, gonna give that a shot next Sohm Al hard then. Although dunno how far I'll get since most everything is dead by the time Trance comes up anyway. :/

[Neela]

isnt bliz2 a relict of older times? I havent used it for a long time now... beside pvp. and I haven't seen any highlvl-smn who still use it nowadays... there are less mobs which can't be taken off with shadow flare, tri, bane, mia2, pain, buffed enkindle, pain, deathflare -> 2-3 ruin lll... bliz is very mp-intensive for the outcome and can also disturb Drks mp regenaration cause of the bind effect... I personally wouldn't use it these days for mobs anymore. ^^

[Kitfox]

isnt bliz2 a relict of older times? I havent used it for a long time now... beside pvp. and I haven't seen any highlvl-smn who still use it nowadays... there are less mobs which can't be taken off with shadow flare, tri, bane, mia2, pain, buffed enkindle, pain, deathflare -> 2-3 ruin lll... bliz is very mp-intensive for the outcome and can also disturb Drks mp regenaration cause of the bind effect... I personally wouldn't use it these days for mobs anymore. ^^

Why wouldn't you use Blizzard 2? Personally I use it all the time while running Gubal Hard where the pulls are typicall 6-10 targets.

Ruin 3 = 200 potency, 1060 mp (outside DWT)
@4 targets: Blizzard 2 = 200 potency, 707 mp
@10 targets: Blizzard 2 = 500 potency, 707 mp

DRKs don't care about the bind. Good DRKs don't even care about Holy.

[Neela]

Why wouldn't you use Blizzard 2?

because i'll haven't encountered any mobs lately which need bliz2 in my basic aoe-rota (see last post) - I was used to use it back in the days as well but not anymore ^^

DRKs don't care about the bind. Good DRKs don't even care about Holy.

Talking about "good" DRKs in times of potd and off-stance-tanking is a bit hilarious but yeah I know what you mean... sadly the truth in df seems very different nowadays ^^'

[Caduagm]

- You want to use Aetherflow whenever it's up.
- You want to use Raging Strikes (and maybe Trick Attack) to buff the 6-7 RUIN 3 you CAN use while you're in trance; Tri-disaster; Festers AND Deathflare.
- You always want to double-Fester while in trance (always, but can't in the opener).
- You always want to buff Enkindle with Trick Attack (if you have a ninja).
- You always want that Dreadwyrm Trance and Raging Strikes have the same count-time (then RS can buffs Deathflare).
- Painflare only if you can hit 2 or more targets.
- Energy Draing only if you really need MP (in case you dropped your MP by raising someone).
- Bane for mobs and/or a second target which has a great amount of life.

Opener:
-> Pre-cast Shadow Flare> Rouse> Spur> Bio 2 > Miasma> Bio >Swift Cast> Raging Strikes> Painflare> Fester> Energy Drain> Aetherflow> Dreadwyrm Trance> Ruin 3 (Swift Casted)> Tri Disaster> Contagion> Ruin 3> Enkindle (or whenever Trick Attack is up)>Ruin 3> Ruin 3> Fester> Ruin 3 > Ruin 3 > Death Flare.

2nd Trance: Swift Cast the first Ruin 3 and use Fester and Tri Disaster. Before Trance ends you can use one more Fester.

[Neela]

Since the usage of ruin lll out of trance became a common thing Energy Drain nowadays is way more useful than it was used to be

and pls dont start the discussion if the pfe opener is the "must" way to go : /

there are various openers for smn pfe is just one of them same goes for the dbl fester in trance - trance mode prio system is strongly depending on your spell speed, especially after the stat weight change, there are smns with <700 ss (max crit) smns with > 750 ss for the extra ruin lll and rarely smns with 900-1000+ ss which won't use swiftcasted ruin lll's at all. although your variation seems kinda solid to me it misses quelling and pots so we could discuss this in an endless conversation why and how -> but we shouldn't do that right here, cause there are good guides which compare those variations and their benefits already to death :3