PAX EAST: I was the person that asked the "Challenging content" question at the end.

[Tracewood]

Satasha: Extreme?

Maybe they could do "Extreme" versions of the new dungeons. Same dungeon layout, with trash mobs being much tougher to kill and mechanics to deal with. I'm thinking like Nightfalls from Destiny (PS4/XB1) where they take a specific SB dungeon and add some very strong buffs in the enemies favor (Higher HP/DEF on trash, floor traps, specific weapon resistance, Stoneskin on all enemies, Bosses have tank busters, etc) With some buffs in your favor (specific damage favor (think blunt favored or magic damage favored), MP regen, start with more HP) and it would be just one dungeon and it'll change each week with rewards resetting like raids. Rewards would have to be top tier, like this could be content for people who don't raid but can get four good players to run them. I'm thinking a handful of mount tokens, a nice chunk of gil, tomestones, gear that goes as high as Savage raid tier which would be the incentive of course, or tokens to buy them if your chosen piece doesn't drop.

Maybe another idea for new content could be some kind of boss attack instance where you fight augmented clones of all the primals and dungeon bosses (like Three Titans all at once!). Mechanics will have to be adjusted so things don't get out of control. It could be a 16-24 instance, call it "Gauntlet" or something. Like You have four rooms to clear, first room would be 3 random ARR bosses, second room three HW bosses, third room two beefed up SB bosses, and last room is the mega boss.

[Driavna]

the only ones at fault for making a game into a job, is the people who form the mindset of making a game into a job.

I did endgame in ff11, never felt like a job to me. I played ff11 20 hrs a day, I play ff14 15 hrs a day. (gf posting not nym) still doesn't feel like a job.

Sure it's not a job anymore is your life but thats do not have anything to do with some stuff feeling like a chore and cap tomes/scrips surely do after a while. IMO Square need their own version of Mythic+

[RokkuEkkusu]

I myself wouldn't mind a little more challenging content.

However, after seeing Pharos Sirius dungeon runs in 2.1 and the varying quality of players in dungeon and 8-man runs (Baelsar's Wall, Final Steps of Faith, and regular version of A11), I wouldn't blame the Devs for their current stance on how the difficulty is.

I mean, people still can't dodge Divebombs and Twisters to save their lives in Turn 5, even when unsynced.

[Hayward]

My concept of "challenge" lies in puzzles within dungeons that, when solved, allow further progress. However, getting such dungeons would likely hack off the speedrunners who don't like to think all that much. As much as I'd like Breath of the Wild-type dungeons, I fear there are too many people who are hung up on "efficiency" instead of problem-solving.

In my mind, S-E needs to challenge players' mental abilities more than our reaction times (i.e. more puzzles, fewer AoE mechanics that require 1s reaction time and cause healers numerous headaches).

[Zojha]

My concept of "challenge" lies in puzzles within dungeons that, when solved, allow further progress.

Have you tried re-playing Zelda games several times? Maybe a couple dozen times?

The puzzles get trivial in the third run at the latest. At that's without teammates eager to tell you the solution and get on with it - most of them will throw a guide at you before the end of the first week after release, provided they can't just solve them on their own.

The people most pissed at that sort of thing would not be speedrunners - It would be the people who wanted to get to the solution on their own and either had their teammates solve it for them, had their teammates spoil it for them or had their teammates kick them for not knowing the solution.

[Ghastly]

.

So many great ideas, I agree with this. It doesn't have to be hp/damage, it can be more fun things like all enemies have stoneskin to start with or they have a chance to summon more enemies or every enemy does poison (poison that damages for a lot) in that dungeon, really big aoes. Things like that.

[Hyperia]

I would like to see more bosses per raid. I feel like it should be instead of 4 bosses it should be around 12 bosses per raid tier.

This...this... omg this so much!

I don't mind the final boss being a 15 minute fight but I'd rather have several shorter boss fights in the 7 minute range. A6S is a perfect example of how they could have beefed each individual robot up just a tad more and made them into 4 boss battles. Sometimes its nice to just run in and smack a boss around and not have to worry about 37 different mechanics and 12 different variation of RNG mixes of it.

Heck, considering how hard Faust was to start, he should have dropped a chest on his own!

[alimdia]

Please stop removing well agrumented quotes from posters while only adding a two-line psudo-science reply as your own content. Thanks a bunch. Interesting read this trhead.

People trim quotes so they fit the character limit, it has no impact on how bad is the response.

[Ririta]

This...this... omg this so much!

I don't mind the final boss being a 15 minute fight but I'd rather have several shorter boss fights in the 7 minute range. A6S is a perfect example of how they could have beefed each individual robot up just a tad more and made them into 4 boss battles. Sometimes its nice to just run in and smack a boss around and not have to worry about 37 different mechanics and 12 different variation of RNG mixes of it.

Heck, considering how hard Faust was to start, he should have dropped a chest on his own!

Oh I'm so glad that someone else also thinks like this. I'd love to raid again if this game had smaller scale bosses, but more of them. The last two could be long fights with lots of mechanics, but not every fight needs to have a 14 minute average kill time with 15 minute enrage and a lot of mechanics... (especially not the first two!)

[RoninDarkchild]

Yoshida understood what was said.

How many times must it be stated to you, that the answer given was NOT the question I was asking? I already knew the question that he answered prior to going to PAX. Which is why i did not ask that question. My question was NOT related to "more" (ie: something harder than Coil or Alex) challenging content. (Coil was perfect difficulty for "me". And the people asking for harder than coil can go ahead and ask for that if they want) That is what he was talking about, and reiterated when he spoke about If they make "more challenging" people complain. As in how some people complained that wanted more challenge because Coil was easy to them (hence people begged, and were given Coil Savage) And then he answered their call and made Alex harder, and people complained it was too hard. THIS IS NOT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! . There is a segment of the population that feels Coil was easy, and wanted more challenge. "I" am not speaking for or about them. AND they are free to ask for that content if THEY want to. So please stop trying to tell ME, the person who was speaking, about what I was talking about. He wasn't TALKING about "more challenging content" as in numerical. Because there is only 1 (ONE!!!!) such content in the game, and has been that way for 4 years!!! So WHO is complaining about this other content that has NEVER existed???

I really don't get your arguing against what I (and others) was asking for. People who do NOT care about raids, or such content do not have to do it!! No one is forced to play it. But as it stands, everyone else who DOES care about raids and such content are FORCED to play a way they are not interested in. I did not do original Coil Savage!!! I had zero interest in it. But JUST because I had zero interest in coil Savage, does not mean I needed to run around trying to tell people who wanted it, why it should not exist. There is no logical argument on why it should not have existed for the people who wanted it. And a Story mode casual Coil, a Hard (The way Coil was), AND a Savage Coil existing at the same time, would have appeased the majority of the people in all 3 camps. (Casual/Mid, Hardcore, Incredible hardcore). Alex Savage would have avoided it's problems if 3 tiers existed. (Story Normal/Mid, Hardcore (Original coil difficulty), Savage (the new harder Alex). SE hasn't learned to not make content that only caters to ONE group at a time, when they should cater to all 3 with simple tweaks. Will it solve EVERY problem? NO! But it will solve most of them!!

diadem acts like a zone, dungeons are different beasts.

No they are not. Dungeons are zones...

Look at bismark vs bismark extreme. titan >> titan hard >> titan extreme. each has different attacks or presentation.

Irrelevant to what I asked. I did not ask for different attacks or different presentation. Raising the level, attack, and defense of the mobs does not "require" new attacks or new presentation. They stated over and over before hard mode dungeons came out that they could easily release the same dungeons, and change nothing but the level of monsters. But that for Hard mode dungeons they "wanted" to do something special, and go back and rework the entire zone. They felt that if they just released the same dungeon but slapped hard mode on, it may be boring. "I" am saying if you do not have the staff to make brand new content, then an easy compromise is to release the SAME hard mode dungeon but as an Extreme. (new min Ilvl, higher lvl mobs, more def, more attack) It is a compromise! Because something is better than nothing at all. And Raiders would probably enjoy it.

Yoshida has been asked this question before

Not like THIS!! Unless you can point to me at which Q&A he was... Because I can think of various answers to "similar" questions he has given, and I had each one in mind when I asked. Because I wasn't asking the same. Particularly people asking the game to be more like FFXI, or more like 1.0, or for everything to be harder. Which effects EVERYONE. Which my question addresses to make sure it does not effect "everyone".

people complain no matter what

Irrelevant. You will never please 100% of everyone. And I never brought up the question thinking it would. I'm sure someone would come along and still say it was too easy. Not my circus, not my monkeys...

People complained about alex story vs alex savage because it was the some mobs, same attacks just hit harder and had larger hp pools.

I don't care! They cater to two different groups. And they were no concern of mine when crafting my question. And I am glad they both exist. Just like other MMO's that have multiple tiers of the SAME content. If they do not have the staff to do more, I.... am..... fine.... with that.

Content is only challenging once

Irrelevant! If you want content to be challenging for a while, stop giving us content that we are all ALREADY overgeared for!!! Of course content will eventually become easy no matter what you do, after you know how to do the fight, and gear up.....The same content will not be challenging forever. And FFXIV is not a game where the same content will be challenging 8 months later to most people. In this game content has like 6 months before becoming irrelevant. That was not the point.

And I won't be addressing you any further, as you seem dead set on arguing with everyone over things no one is saying least of all, me. It's like you're arguing, just for the sake of arguing.