Trend: Kicked for PvPing in PvP

[Stormrider]

Reread, I did include the third team.

You were missing what I was getting at. If one team falls to far from behind and have a few vocal players they can decide who wins. I mean a single mindedness tunnel vision bent on destruction. 48vs24 is not desirable and that is what can happen with kill first type teams. Aether has been plagued(blessed?) with premades. A lot of times third place just keeps pushing premade. Sure they get lots of points from kills but also lose some as well. While the lucky team just has to stay out of the way and do the PvE objectives for only a positive gain.

Literally third place has no desire to win. Just a desire for kills and making the team that decided to kill them lose.

Just got out of a match 500 points down since a premade farmed kills. They were pretty well tied for first at 1k in points. They ended up losing by over 500 since they couldn't handle the pressure of 24 people ignoring everything else but them.

[Llus]

In shatter it's actually +10 for each kill not +5.

Is it? Hmm, that's even more incentive to KO opponents; effectively +15 points for your team for each kill and really throws my calculations out the window since a full alliance wipe would be +240 points; only 60 points less than the points available in the large node.

[Enlial]

Big ice in 72m has 480,000 hp, divided by 300 is 1600 so yeah, about 1 point per second dpsing (pretty sure most ppl do less than that in pvp but w/e), and that ice will be dead in 20 seconds with 15 people hitting it (/cough. yeah. bear with me)

Ok so say you have 5 ppl each from team A B and C at ice. Team A and B both have all 5 hitting ice. Team C has 4 people hitting ice and one person going for kills. Lets pretend this person doesn't suck and is able to get 1 kill every 5 seconds.

So, at the start
Team A, 5 players on ice, 0 points
Team B, 5 players on ice, 0 points
Team C, 4 players on ice, 0 points

At the 5 second mark, you have
Team A 5 players on ice, 25 points
Team B 4 players on ice, 25 points
Team C 4 players on ice, 20 points

10 seconds
Team A 4 players on ice, 50 points
Team B 4 players on ice, 45 points
Team C 4 players on ice, 40 points

15 seconds
Team A 3 players on ice, 75 points
Team B 4 players on ice, 65 points
Team C 4 players on ice, 60 points

20 seconds
Team A 3 players on ice, 90 points
Team B 3 players on ice, 85 points
Team C 4 players on ice, 80 points

There's now 10 people on ice, with 45 points left on the ice. So for the remainder give 4.5 points per person to each team:
Team A: 103.5 points
Team B: 98.5 points
Team C: 98 points

So team A wins? Nope. Factor in points from kills
Team A: -10 : 93.5 points
Team B: -10 : 88.5 points
Team C: +20 : 118 points

Team C also just gained a battle high and should be able to do even better the remainder of the match. Killing isn't a problem. Going for kills, and failing on the other hand, is. But then so is that one healer who keeps letting people die while doing stone III spam on that magic resisting ice for around 300 damage per second. /shrug.

An even more fantastic solution would have been for all 5 members of team C to just kill everyone, get lots of battle highs, then proceed to clean up whats left of the ice (and in the long haul, dominate the match)

Most people aren't that good at kills, no, but, and I hate to break this to you all, most people aren't that good at dps, either. I guess its a risk-reward thing to a degree. Being a crappy dps will still net your team some points. Being a crappy PvPer and failing to down anyone will get your team nothing. OP did say he was getting fever so I assume in his case he was having some success. And I don't think "differences in play style" (something a gm supposedly said to some guy in a completely different context two years ago in a screenshot on reddit) applies to someone playing the game as it was intended to be played.

[Llus]

You were missing what I was getting at. If one team falls to far from behind and have a few vocal players they can decide who wins. I mean a single mindedness tunnel vision bent on destruction. 48vs24 is not desirable and that is what can happen with kill first type teams. Aether has been plagued(blessed?) with premades. A lot of times third place just keeps pushing premade. Sure they get lots of points from kills but also lose some as well. While the lucky team just has to stay out of the way and do the PvE objectives for only a positive gain.

Literally third place has no desire to win. Just a desire for kills and making the team that decided to kill them lose.

Ahh, I see your point. Yea; generally a kill-only team in 72 man will start getting focused by both of the other GC's alliances and unless you have all 3 of your alliances stacked with regulars you're going to lose a ton of points because you'll be in a 2v1 situation the entire match. Which, in itself can be pretty fun even for the 2nd place and 3rd place teams - I feel bad for the 1st place team in that situation though because that must be really boring.

[ToasterMan]

People get kicked in shatter? That's strange, I don't really consider myself that great of a healer and nobody ever wanted to kick me

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Bloody hell, this is disturbing. . . People wanting to kick for attacking other players in PvP? Wew, Hydaelyn save these children from themselves!

I've made the suggestion several times to have casters - who do less damage to ice due to its 50% magic resistance - focus on ccing/killing the enemy team at objectives. They can't score if they're not alive to hit the ice, plus any caster with adrenaline can pull double duty using their LB on a tightly packed group of enemy ranged or the melees at the ice. Trying to go for the ice only, then play a passive strategy besides is simply wrong. Same goes for small ice; take out the people there (if there's more of you than them), then it's all yours.

NEVER. CAMP. ICE. Not even if it's the last one. Why? Because some of us are looking at the map. If I know your whole team is camping ice in the north, but your base is south, your base is about to get taken. OR, I can simply have my team rush yours and send you packing, possibly before the ice activates, then you lose your opportunity to be first entirely. Never camp ice.

Get off your mounts near enemies. No seriously, GET OFF YOUR MOUNT NEAR ENEMIES. Don't get ON your mount near enemies. I've seen too many people simply mount up and try to leave as soon as the ice is gone. If I see you do it, I WILL attack you, purely to teach you why not to do it. If you're on my team, I will not cover you. You need to understand this is as bad in PvP as perhaps, say, standing in an aoe you have plenty of time and room to dodge in PvE; it's not smart to do. Don't do it.

[Culfinrandir]

So it's not necessarily that "zerg ice, ignore doods" is the CORRECT strategy

Nailed it. I was called all sorts when I suggested to focus the leading team whilst at the last ice. Guess what? Yep, those who scream loudest get listened to so 'we' focused the ice & the leading team won. People are convinced that if you get the last hit on an ice you will get all the points. It doesn't work like that, if an enemy team has taken the ice down to 5% & walked away you don't get 100% of the points by killing the last 5%!

I've seen many games won by focusing down the other teams to prevent them getting many/any points on the last big ice whilst only a few players take the ice itself down. We went from third to winning a couple of times doing just that. If everyone clusters the ice it dies quicker but that's because the other teams are hitting it too, thus taking points 'belonging' to you if your alliance has control of the ice & pinch points.

[Araxes]

Weakness debuff... you can easyily kill him off 2nd time... double weakness...

You will only see weakness in PvP if the Healer is completely new to pvp.

[Enlial]

Ahh, I see your point. Yea; generally a kill-only team in 72 man will start getting focused by both of the other GC's alliances and unless you have all 3 of your alliances stacked with regulars you're going to lose a ton of points because you'll be in a 2v1 situation the entire match. Which, in itself can be pretty fun even for the 2nd place and 3rd place teams - I feel bad for the 1st place team in that situation though because that must be really boring.

This is really more of a symptom of 3 way pvp than anything else, though I've found it to be an exception rather than a rule. Full focus due to score usually doesn't happen until late game, mainly because you run the risk of giving the third team the advantage if they choose not to assist. What is much more common, though, is that a team will feel like they're being bullied, and dog whichever GC has been pushing them the remainder of the match, regardless of score.

Actually, reliance on this occurring is the core of the "objectives only" tactic, weather people realize it or not. Counting on at least one of the other GC's being stupid, even if it does happen from time to time, isn't something I see as a valid strategy. Its been a thing since seal rock and I'm sure it'll always be around, because it does (sadly) work sometimes and confirmation bias leads people to think that its a good path to winning.

[Llus]

This is really more of a symptom of 3 way pvp than anything else, though I've found it to be an exception rather than a rule. Full focus due to score usually doesn't happen until late game, mainly because you run the risk of giving the third team the advantage if they choose not to assist. What is much more common, though, is that a team will feel like they're being bullied, and dog whichever GC has been pushing them the remainder of the match, regardless of score.

Actually, reliance on this occurring is the core of the "objectives only" tactic, weather people realize it or not. Counting on at least one of the other GC's being stupid, even if it does happen from time to time, isn't something I see as a valid strategy. Its been a thing since seal rock and I'm sure it'll always be around, because it does (sadly) work sometimes and confirmation bias leads people to think that its a good path to winning.

Yea, reliance on this strategy of objective only avoid PvP does work; but it's no better than a coin flip in most cases. When the other teams wise up and notice your score they'll often double team you and if they've gotten fever/high buffs you can say goodbye to your lead. This strategy of avoidance does seem to pay off better in seal rock vs new players when your team is in the caves as the coastal teams tend to keep fighting each other; but again this isn't really something you can count on for a win since you have a 1:3 chance of getting caves in the first place and you have no idea what the comp of the coastal teams are.