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  1. #11
    Player
    HaelseMikiro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa-Lominsa
    Posts
    575
    Character
    Febreealle Goldlyonse
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Should probably be requesting that Special Tarasque FOrce be completable by a single party also
    At least Verdrfolnir can tank
    (3)

  2. #12
    Community Rep Luxpheras's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    55
    Greetings adventurers,

    Thank you for sharing your feedback in regards to the FATEs Darkscale Descendeth, Darkscale Disappeareth and Darkscale Devoureth. The dev. team is aware of the concerns regarding large-scale FATEs being difficult to challenge for smaller parties, and are looking into this to see if any adjustments can be made.

    Please continue to share any feedback you may have, and rest assured that we will pass your thoughts along to the team!
    (34)
    Chenin "Luxpheras" Matthews - Community Team

  3. #13
    Player
    Dreggit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    111
    Character
    Helfgrin Dreggit
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    All it takes is to get an 8 man dedicated group. 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps. Or 2 healers if you want to be doubly sure. My FC and I did the full chain in an hour. Was plenty of fun

    To counter your request OP. I don't think a nerf is necessary. You should have a party before starting in the first place and you've plenty of time to do it too. Especially since one of the fates required to start the fate you are talking about doesn't start until you trigger it in the first place. (End of the Rainbow I think)
    (1)
    Last edited by Dreggit; 03-08-2017 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #14
    Player
    kuma_aus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    337
    Character
    Paca Kuma
    World
    Chocobo
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro View Post
    Should probably be requesting that Special Tarasque FOrce be completable by a single party also
    At least Verdrfolnir can tank
    I've completed the FATE with a Light Party, there's no reason why a single party can't clear the FATE. You just need to actually do a mechanic for it instead of brainless tank and spank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxpheras View Post
    The dev. team is aware of the concerns regarding large-scale FATEs being difficult to challenge for smaller parties, and are looking into this to see if any adjustments can be made.
    I really hope fates don't get easier for small parties. It's nice having hard content in the open world that need people to gather up for it. And with Novice Network and Party Finder, it's not that much trouble to get people to come help so I think it's fine if fates require things like tanks and healers.

    The only thing that sucks about this fate is that it fails way to quickly. The Hinterlands one is still challenging but because the first fate isn't failed if you're not in the area ready for it, it seems perfect to me. The best thing I think for fates like this is to keep them as a combo FATE like Behemoth / Darkscale / Hinterlands, but don't make the first one have such strict timing on it. This way you have an extended amount of time to keep calling people over for the fate so when you do get to the final part, even if it's a hard FATE, you will have gathered at least a small amount of people to help.
    (2)

  5. #15
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5,027
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 59
    I like this change, although I understand people who want hard content that they can do in the open world (never going into beautiful zones again sort of sucks - beastmen quests help for specific zones but they're not really hard).

    I think they should revisit their leve system. Streamline it to be easier to use for general sense, examining and managing the traveling done (both to start, to do, and collect reward), how the restock of leves works - I think perhaps reducing the max but globally increasing their value and duration appropriately, and on top of the global value increase make a shifting zone bonus where that areas rewards are greatly enhanced or perhaps a few unique leve's available during that period (with unique/greater scaled rewards) - to keep you visiting new areas rather than visiting a guide to see the best place to spam a specific type of leve only. For zones where the level is really low the few unique leves could be scaled content, or at a few higher tier level brackets - so you'd still visit Central Shroud as a level 65.

    That streamline might make it considered more often again for DoW/M leveling - as right now I mostly just see them for DoH/L. There is a surprising amount of Lore and non-random text in leve's and they also offer better control to make interesting content than a FATE in an open world setting (like a weekly "epic" / burning circle leve for example). Could examine the treasure hunt system a bit too, perhaps being able to force a map to a zone (lower tiers?) - just consider making things convenient will encourage people to lump activities together. A treasure map UI where you store then and can hold more than one would be nice (cannot control where the higher tier locations are, to keep some balance/speed control and wandering).

    So yeah I agree interesting, hard specifically as well, content on the open world is nice Kuma - part of the issue is reward structure and efficiency (of non open vs open), but at least personally I think being able to actually do the FATEs when you see them is a better feeling rather than "welp, no one cares to get this FATE now so doing this just became incredibly unlikely". Where treasure maps and leves would be willful task and you'd know if you needed a group before hand, or if you picked a slightly less rewarding solo "epic" content you'd still be expecting. While for FATEs its a bit uncontrolled and I've seen a lot of FATEs I'd like to tick off my list but know I'll never be able to get a party together before the time is up (FATEs that may have achievements or rewards that are no longer pertinent, anything of current desire is no problem on Balmung - perhaps they die too fast in that scenario lol).
    (1)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-08-2017 at 05:50 AM.

  6. #16
    Player
    RukiaFae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    324
    Character
    Rukia Fae
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 60
    Is it sad that the only large fate I know about is Odin, and I've only done it once. I need to look into these fates.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player
    kuma_aus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    337
    Character
    Paca Kuma
    World
    Chocobo
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shougun View Post
    So yeah I agree interesting, hard specifically as well, content on the open world is nice Kuma - part of the issue is reward structure and efficiency (of non open vs open), but at least personally I think being able to actually do the FATEs when you see them is a better feeling rather than "welp, no one cares to get this FATE now so doing this just became incredibly unlikely". Where treasure maps and leves would be willful task and you'd know if you needed a group before hand, or if you picked a slightly less rewarding solo "epic" content you'd still be expecting. While for FATEs its a bit uncontrolled and I've seen a lot of FATEs I'd like to tick off my list but know I'll never be able to get a party together before the time is up (FATEs that may have achievements or rewards that are no longer pertinent, anything of current desire is no problem on Balmung - perhaps they die too fast in that scenario lol).
    The only FATEs that are hard to tick off right now are the Darkscale fates, because Vedrfolnir dies really quickly, and the Highbridge fates, because the NPCs die quickly. Highbridge fates are decent in a way since you can start the rescue fate when ever you're ready and solo it and you know a short time later the achievement fates will spawn so you can start recruiting.

    A lot of hard fates that need parties have 30 minute timers. And these fates can be cleared in around 10 minutes. So you have around 15 minutes to get people to come before you really need to start the fate, and then you can keep getting people to come as you clear the FATE. Again, Novice Network and Party Finder make getting people to come easy and you can always ask your friends and FC to come help. If it's an off peak time you might have trouble, but these fates spawn all the time so just attempt them at a peak hour when people aren't too busy like right after reset.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5,027
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 59
    Quote Originally Posted by kuma_aus View Post
    The only FATEs that are hard to tick off right now are the Darkscale fates, because Vedrfolnir dies really quickly, and the Highbridge fates, because the NPCs die quickly. Highbridge fates are decent in a way since you can start the rescue fate when ever you're ready and solo it and you know a short time later the achievement fates will spawn so you can start recruiting.

    A lot of hard fates that need parties have 30 minute timers. And these fates can be cleared in around 10 minutes. So you have around 15 minutes to get people to come before you really need to start the fate, and then you can keep getting people to come as you clear the FATE. Again, Novice Network and Party Finder make getting people to come easy and you can always ask your friends and FC to come help. If it's an off peak time you might have trouble, but these fates spawn all the time so just attempt them at a peak hour when people aren't too busy like right after reset.
    You've got that turtle and a bunch of other ones like it too though (like the crab), even had a group of 15 on the turtle (I'm sure some people were one handing it/not trying) and failed with the 8 minutes we started it at lol.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying I think when you've got stuff spawn and despawn it's a much better feeling to know if you tried there is an acceptable chance you could get it done with lesser numbers (rather than a large mass, or a tight knit group, both of which are not common when stuff is not explicitly desirable anymore), especially as not everyone plays at peak time or is looking at content everyone cares about - maybe your server is still infatuated with FATEs but mine only is when they have high value (EXP FATE areas, specific zones, or things like Odin).

    I've seen people fail Darkscale plenty of times while I was crafting away because they couldn't get enough /a WHM lol. Perhaps its just server specific issues, but at least personally I'd like to see hard content but in content that you've willingly joined, or doesn't have a vanishing/failing point*, rather than content that you'll likely never get to do without getting a bunch of people who have nothing better to do :P. * Like if you fail to do a Leve not a big deal, do it again, fail to do a FATE? Wait 2-24 hours, and if you're lucky and have no personal schedule you'll catch it again later if not.. maybe you wont see it again for quite a while.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-08-2017 at 06:24 AM.

  9. #19
    Player
    kuma_aus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    337
    Character
    Paca Kuma
    World
    Chocobo
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shougun View Post
    You've got that turtle and a bunch of other ones like it too though (like the crab), even had a group of 15 on the turtle (I'm sure some people were one handing it/not trying) and failed with the 8 minutes we started it at lol.
    Which ones are you talking about? Cancer in Costa Del Sol and the Turtle in Dravanian Forelands? Both can be done with 4 people easy, but you need 1 tank and 1 healer and actually do the mechanic for the Dravaian Forelands turtle. Both have 30 minute timers, and can be cleared in around 15 minutes with 4 people. It's not that hard to get 3 other people to come help do a hard achievement fate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shougun View Post
    I've seen people fail Darkscale plenty of times while I was crafting away because they couldn't get enough /a WHM lol.
    Yes, that's the issue OP is bringing up. The FATE doesn't need to get easier, just the first fate needs to stop being auto failed in 1-2 minutes if people are not at the FATE ready for it.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5,027
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 59
    Quote Originally Posted by kuma_aus View Post
    Which ones are you talking about? Cancer in Costa Del Sol and the Turtle in Dravanian Forelands? Both can be done with 4 people easy, but you need 1 tank and 1 healer and actually do the mechanic for the Dravaian Forelands turtle. Both have 30 minute timers, and can be cleared in around 15 minutes with 4 people. It's not that hard to get 3 other people to come help do a hard achievement fate.
    I think the primary purpose of FATEs is to get people moving around either solo or in small dynamic sets of people as a sort of fluctuating public leve with random compositions (no "can't do this FATE without the holy trinity"), skill ability, and sizes. Also you keep talking about small parties and organized people but I have to say the regular scenario is chaos not organization, here at least lol. I just disagree with you on the premise of what belongs in FATEs, I want what you want but in other systems like improved Leves and Treasure Chests and other like contents.

    Although I respect that's what you want in them, or that you think people can handle it (I disagree, but I don't think that makes you "wrong" just that I don't think that's their intention / general use).

    Basically if you cant put a small group of random monkeys in the room and get the FATE done then you either change the FATE so more monkeys want to come (Odin) or make it so you don't need as many monkeys :P. Interestingly though you also want the FATE to be able to scale so if there so happened to be a flood, that'd it'd be able to hold itself for a little bit before collapsing. And I say monkeys with love <3 lol.

    This perspective of FATE is probably why I've never really valued them as a "main content" though, I believe they're fine as a side random thing. I think if you started to make them harder and more strict (have this job or fail) that you'd get A LOT more ruckus in game and out though any time the FATE wasn't currently the flavor of the month, I believe FATEs are destined to be easy - which is why while I want hard (and rewarding) open world content I suggest that it should be found/created elsewhere (and I've always suggested non-public party systems when I do lol, NM camping like in the days of FFXI can be a past memory for all I care XD /shudder).

    So your groups of four or whatever, they're better than the average group I think, and I don't think an average small random group of random jobs on the turtle is going to get it done as consistently unless they're there very early on (and I think having people have time restrictions is a bit silly "4 for 15 mins, 8 for 10 mins, oh you're 4 and 9 mins? Well you can't do it then, move along").

    Quote Originally Posted by kuma_aus View Post
    Yes, that's the issue OP is bringing up. The FATE doesn't need to get easier, just the first fate needs to stop being auto failed in 1-2 minutes if people are not at the FATE ready for it.
    From reading their post part is the issue of failing due to not being able to keep them alive but also another part of their post is the issue of numbers, how many are needed for certain FATEs.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-08-2017 at 07:17 AM.

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