16 hours of cross server zurvan extreme party finder: my thoughts

[Brian_]

From my experiences, the quality of player now is significantly higher than the quality of player back then.

It was regular to fail the DPS check on Bismark back then. PF has always been garbage. The difference is back then nobody knew how to play their jobs yet since HW was new. We were just winging it with adjusted ARR rotations. Even the better players now were awful back then by current standards. I look at some of my old parses and cringe.

So I think your perception of what qualifies as a good player has also drastically changed.

[Watachy]

Snip

You've got a point there yeah, i paused the game and came back when the expansion was out for like 1 or 2 months, so yeah i did not really experienced those PF.
What Dun Scaith and Mhach which got pretty well known mechanics, do you have any opinion on that and the fact a lot of people still wiping on mhach which is a 3/4 months old raid?
Looking for it

[Brian_]

Back then, we were still seeing 500 DPS BRDs that refused to use WM, BLMs that were just spamming Fire 1, and DRGs that were terrible with BotD. It was bad. Back then, I still played on Gilgamesh (before the influx of people from other servers that severely diluted the quality of players) and it was still bad. People are posting all these pictures of idiotic PF listings but they existed for Bismark back then, too. Max ilevel restricted Bismark parties with draconian DPS requirements. None of this is new.

As for WCoM and DS, I play on the JP data center now. I cleared both on patch day and yea, we wiped. It wasn't a wipe fest and we still cleared but some of the bosses took a few attempts. But, towards the end of the week, the runs were already pretty much wipe-free. While you might still see an occasional wipe, it was rare to have multiple wipes and vote abandons.

So again, like I mentioned much earlier, are JP players playing different content? No. They are playing the same game. Are HC players playing different content? No. They are playing the same game.

It's not a problem with content. It's a problem with players.

[DinahDemiurge]

It's not a problem with content. It's a problem with players.

Nope. The content does not teach players how to play. It's SE's design that forces this. Gating is a pretty tired and true way to keep the feeling of achievement high while also motivating midcore players to improve. Softcore will always see glam as an endgame and they can go do that. Mid/hardcore should have gating on the difficult content to show achievement and progress. All primals should be defeated before being able to access the new one, etc.

[Watachy]

It's not a problem with content. It's a problem with players.

I think it's both.

As dinah said, nothing except Savage requires you to be on point on your rotation and master your job.

But the mentality of the players is really, im not playing on a JP datacenter but i heard that players are working as a party to understand mechanics and improve everyone's particpation in the fights. You can see with the clear rates which are higher in the JP datacenters. Apparently a lot of JP players are into raid and play their job well, that's not the case here in EU.

Wipe on mhach or DS in a EU server ? Full toxic chat.

[Yeol]

If you find that current extremes are easier than previous ones (talking about HW only) then it means that you got better

You now can keep your eye on mechanics, cast bars and keep up with your rotation just fine. Some can even give callouts.
Sadly this is not the case for all players.

I do believe that the MSQ, dungeons and trials are easy. Which is why players who did not try extreme or savage before will find it very, very hard.
There is no middle difficulty content between them. I think (Hard) trials were suppose to be between easy and extreme/savage in terms of difficulty.

So the issues I found:
> There is no middle difficulty content to teach players.
> If a player wanted to get better it has to be by self-effort.

[Watachy]

I know that i get better since i invested myself to get better.

But it actually looks painfull... there is two options:
- I started become toxic/elitist because im amazed by the fact that players can't actually do simple things (yeah, im a healer and im always amazed by people not dodging things)
- SE content and players mentality actually did not push them to invest themselves into the game and try to get better

Looks like both..

[Campi]

Nope. The content does not teach players how to play. It's SE's design that forces this. Gating is a pretty tired and true way to keep the feeling of achievement high while also motivating midcore players to improve. Softcore will always see glam as an endgame and they can go do that. Mid/hardcore should have gating on the difficult content to show achievement and progress. All primals should be defeated before being able to access the new one, etc.

Nope it's the players.
Why can people clear A12S? Because they learn how to play with their classes
Most people are just to lazy and want all things without doing anything

[Watachy]

Nope it's the players.
Why can people clear A12S? Because they learn how to play with their classes
Most people are just to lazy and want all things without doing anything

You can't deny the fact there is no challenging content out of the Savage turns.
It's the thordan fight that decide me to go into Savage, i would never though i would actually love to raid and do savage content.

SE should drop some challenging content (ou of Savage) which could make people want to become better and try new things like the thordan fight did for me.

[Elisewin]

Yesterday I had put 3 PF up doing mono healer (as sch) and mono tank.
Even if I was doing dps untill the phase change the lowest % I saw was 82%.

The point is: can you do enough dps? No, well that's okey.. But please at least learn how to dodge soars ._____.

I was so depressed.