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  1. #41
    Community Rep Luxpheras's Avatar
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    May 2016
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    Greetings, everyone!

    We'd like to share Yoshida's recent post on the topic of PVP premades and spawn camping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    Hello, everybody! I'm sorry it took so long for me to make a comment regarding this matter. FFXIV Producer/Director Yoshida here. First of all, thank you very much for all the feedback regarding the current state of Frontline!

    I'm sure there are many of you that decided to try out PVP to obtain the Garo gear that was added in Patch 3.5.

    With the increased number of Frontline participants, there are currently 2 major hot topics that many of you seem to be talking about.

    First, static groups that work together and destroy groups that were randomly matched together. Second, groups that "spawn camp" (players that wait around the respawn point and repeatedly defeat opposing players as they respawn), instead of trying to destroy the icebound tomeliths, in the Fields of Glory (Shatter) map.

    We hear numerous suggestions such as "separate the static group queue from the solo queue" and "implement something to prevent spawn camping, or make it so that there are no benefits of spawn camping."

    Based on the feedback we have received, the development team is currently discussing how we plan to approach this matter. I would like to take a moment to share the general direction that we have decided to take based on these internal discussions.

    Static Groups and Solo Queues
    First off, regarding static groups. Like static groups in PvE, players in static groups work together by sharing information, tactics, communicating, and coordinating together. For these reasons, these group are naturally "better" than groups that were randomly grouped together.

    Up until recently, PVP content consisted of players with higher motivation getting a group of players together to conduct in-game events, conducting heated discussions and providing feedback on the forums, as well as helping the newcomers by giving them advice. After the increased number of participants trying out PVP, we believe these PVP-core of players are excited and motivated more than ever.

    Both the development team and I would hate to destroy the passion surrounding this community. Additionally, we would like to provide a place where veterans and newcomers can play together and have fun.

    Therefore, we would like to keep the ability to queue as a 8-man party, but think of ways to prevent a whole alliance sized number of groups from becoming a static group. While we understand the casual feel of being able to queue solo, we also understand the fun of working together. We also have to consider situations where a player might form an 8-man group by inviting their friends or FC mates.

    However, by synchronizing the timing of the queue with 2 other 8-man static parties, you have a good chance of forming a 24-man static group (8 x 3). These types of 24-man groups have such an impact on the game and will break the balance of a match. Therefore, we do plan to implement a counter-measure for this matter.

    To go into details of the counter-measure, no matter how many people there are in your party, if you queue with your party, you will randomly be grouped with players that belong to other Grand Companies. Of course, there’s still a chance that you might end up being grouped with players from the same Grand Company, so we plan to make adjustments to the matching algorithm to try to prevent this as much as possible. You will still be able to select a Grand Company if you queue solo, so we understand the fact that there will be players that will try to exploit the system to group together. We will keep a close eye on this matter and plan to make adjustments if necessary.

    While we understand that even 8-man static parties have a huge impact on a match, if the Grand Company is randomized every time, there might be a match where you might end up on the same team as the static party. We believe that this counter-measure is the quickest and most effective thing we are able to implement at this current time. We apologize to those of you that take pride in the Grand Company that you belong to, but this was the route we decided to take based on the current state of the Frontline matches. Thank you for your cooperation.

    Additionally, we would like to take this opportunity to remove the specification wherein players lose their Adrenaline Rush gauge upon being KO’d, based on the skill gap between newcomers and veterans.
    Spawn Camping
    "Spawn camping" refers to those that wait around the respawn point and repeatedly defeat opposing players as they respawn. This one of the most hated actions in a PVP game. Generally, the best way to tackle this problem is by making it systematically impossible to do it.

    In FFXIV, players that respawn will receive an invincibility buff until they enter they battlefield. This means that players were able to stay in the respawn areas with their invincibility buffs and attack players that are trying to spawn camp. However, we did not anticipate a group of 24 players to try to do this act to work the system and making it possible spawn camp in certain situations.

    We discussed counter-measures such as applying a powerful buff to the players that respawn, and the invincibility buff lasting a short while even after you enter the battlefield. However, in the end, we believed that the biggest priority right now is to prevent 24-man static groups from forming. If we did decide to implement a powerful buff to those that respawn, we might end up new problems due to players finding new ways to abuse the new design. If we were to make a design change, we would like to either create multiple respawn locations, as well as apply some type of debuff to those that that get close to the enemy base. The only problem with systematical changes is that it takes a lot of time to implement.

    It’s simply too difficult to tell the players to stop spawn camping due to the effectiveness, so the best way to counter-act this is to make design changes. We sincerely apologize for those that were affected by this issue, and for not implementing a perfect design from the start.
    Closing
    PVP content consists of actual players competing against each other. Due to the nature of fighting actual players instead of AI, players might feel even more satisfaction upon a win, and vice versa. That is the greatest aspect of PVP, but because you are competing against actual players, I believe it’s important to have respect for your opponent. I, too, enjoy PVP a lot and feel the necessity of providing an atmosphere where all players can feel the same excitement as me, as well as increasing the number of players that participate in PVP content. Even in real sports, the act of degrading an opponent is hated by many. We would like to put even more focus on this aspect with FFXIV, so it would great if you we can all of you to cooperate in order to create a better environment for all players.
    (24)
    Chenin "Luxpheras" Matthews - Community Team

  2. #42
    Player
    Osmond's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Ul'dah
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    Character
    Danielle Osmond
    World
    Balmung
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    Machinist Lv 60
    Hmmm, so basically the community caused this particular nerf in the future of pvp. Never thought that ppl would start the "camp" game in this. That's the 1st I've heard of it.
    (1)

  3. #43
    Player
    KusoWat's Avatar
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    Jan 2017
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    242
    Character
    K'uso Watashi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    I would NEVER spawn camp...

    (1)

  4. #44
    Player
    Khalithar's Avatar
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    May 2015
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    1,796
    Character
    Khalith Mateo
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmond View Post
    Hmmm, so basically the community caused this particular nerf in the future of pvp. Never thought that ppl would start the "camp" game in this. That's the 1st I've heard of it.
    I've only seen one case of a spawn camp in seal rock but it didn't last very long as it's just not very productive to do that vs grabbing nodes that spawn since the third team gets free reign over the rest of the battlefield.

    As far as the premade break goes, that's a good step in the right direction. I'm personally a fan of putting the premades in to their own queue, if they want shorter queue times, queue solo, period. But I'll take what I can get.
    (0)

  5. #45
    Player
    TiramisuMacaron's Avatar
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    Aug 2016
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    314
    Character
    Tiramisu Macaron
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 60
    It's a bigger issue in JP. This fix is honestly more catered to the JP community. In NA, the 8man premades will still decide the outcomes of games.
    (0)

  6. #46
    Player
    Maxwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    243
    Character
    Indra Spharai
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Randomizing GC for pre mades is a pretty good work around. It should help getting people more victories overall. Ilike the idea of expanding the safety zone or simply creating random spawns. I also like removing the LB penalty when dying, but i would have also liked a revision to battle fever.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    Dimitrii's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    834
    Character
    Knives Stryfe
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 60
    Idk I freelance solo 100% of the time and still win at the minimum 1 out of every 3 matches each week which would put me at an average 33% winrate so it didn't seem to me like the premades were that big of a deal. Perhaps there are more or stronger premades queuing in the other data centers rather than primal? Fair change I guess though.
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    phantom23's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Rick Grimes
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 60
    This is 1v1v1 spawn camping is not an issue, dont feed them they will be forced to leave and deal with the third alliance claiming all the objectives and out numbering anybody not currently at the spawn camping point. Wait for your alliance to show up and remove the campers by force. Biggest issue is communication , people dont like to listen but they sure do like to complain.
    (2)

  9. #49
    Player
    Cabalabob's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    852
    Character
    Gunsa Cabalabob
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Your fix for statics won't help anything, if 3 parties of 8 are trying to queue together and they get put against eachother then they'll just co-ordinate to sabotage one of the teams they get put on.

    Just limit it so you can't queue for frontlines with more than 4 people (and a 4 man can't get into the same PARTY as another 4 man, but can get into the same ALLIANCE as another 4 man), that's enough to organise as a small group but not enough to dominate a match. That way if 3 parties of 4 queue they might get in together and have half an organised alliance. Again. It's not enough to dominate but enough to make a strong unit.

    As for spawn camping, just add powerful NPC guards around the base who will attack any enemy that gets too close. Similar to the guards around sanctuaries in open world areas. Or if not NPC's, bertha cannons so people inside the base can shoot spawn campers for high AoE damage while invincible themselves.
    (6)
    Last edited by Cabalabob; 02-17-2017 at 02:31 PM.

  10. #50
    Player
    KusoWat's Avatar
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    Jan 2017
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    242
    Character
    K'uso Watashi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Can someone please explain to me what the issue is with players coordinating, cooperating, and communicating in a...

    MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?
    (6)

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