Please open floors 101-200 to queue!!

[Renius]

I would prefer challenging content once in a while and if they open it up for DF, chances are, people expecting faceroll clears in there, getting upset when they dont get them and demand that the content gets nerfed. Why are you guys so upset about not being able to stick to your lonely wolf attitude AND seeing a minor part of the game? Is getting 1-3 more people to do stuff with you really that impossible for you?

Please explain how making it open changes the "challenging content"? Why are you so upset if I and others can get into it with a mixed party if you still can do whatever you choose? Go in it with a premade, that is an option and it has always been available for the socialites like you. We lone wolves have other preferences.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm not really a lone wolf. I do plenty of stuff with my friends. However, they and others on my server have all subscribed to the idea of the "perfect" party makeup for PotD and will not go in with just anything randomly thrown together. We differ in this in that I highly enjoy the randomness that matching provides. I don't need anything else to change, just allow me to match with others with a similar save file and let me go from there. If we fail, then my save gets reset like everyone else's. It is possible to communicate and work together in randoms. And since our saves would have the same requirements as a fixed party, we would have a vested interest in communicating at the higher levels.

[Liii]

Please explain how making it open changes the "challenging content"? Why are you so upset if I and others can get into it with a mixed party if you still can do whatever you choose? Go in it with a premade, that is an option and it has always been available for the socialites like you. We lone wolves have other preferences.

If you read the arguments before, what people are concerned about isn't the fact that opening the content to pugs will immediately effect content. They're worried about how the new lvl 50 rogue (not ninja, who needs jobs skills anyways) queued in with your 2 healers who swear by healers don't dps 'I paid for this game therefore I will play how I want to' and yourself be you a tank/healer/dps, will handle mechanics on level 171+. Because odds are this kind of group comp will fail because if you don't trust pugs on expert roulette why would you trust them in challenging content? Moving forward a wipe occurs and you gotta start back at floor 51 (well shit). Then the same person who said 'gated game design is bad game design' comes to forums rants and raves how it's way too unfair and bad game design how you ALLOWED duty finder queues but the content can't be completed by duty finder pugs therefore NERF NERF NERF <--- oops that just changed the challenging content for me:/

On the other hand, the argument was made that they don't mind opening it to duty finder, but then you NEED TO BE LVL 60 JOB AND HAVE A TANK HEALER AND 2 DPS composition with minimum aether pool level because when it comes to randoms you NEED this sort of safety net. This is sounding like raid finder requirements and we all know how fast THOSE queues are ;D I mean, that doesn't change the content for me but that doesn't make it much more accessible does it?

I personally am fine with opening it to duty finder but you have to have regular duty finder rules for party composition or else for your own damn sake, you will NOT progress. Knowing this community, the second it opens up the salt mines asking for nerfs will come and it is the nerfs that will 'change the challenging content' for everyone.

[Vidu]

Please explain how making it open changes the "challenging content"? Why are you so upset if I and others can get into it with a mixed party if you still can do whatever you choose? Go in it with a premade, that is an option and it has always been available for the socialites like you. We lone wolves have other preferences.

*sigh*
Again? Really? You need this explanition again?

Look, its simple: You play this game to have fun. The devs want this game to be fun, so they design content that is supposed to fullfill this purpose. Dying and failing isnt fun for most people (and for the rest we have Dark Souls) and they also have those clear rates in mind that they want to see for content after so and so much time. To ensure that those are reached they have to make several desicions for that content - as in required ilvl, party set up etc. Based on that they can adjust the difficulty of the content. Putting content into the DF is basically them saying "We designed this content in a way that you can clear it with pugs" - and obviously content that you can clear with pugs MUST be easier than content you do in a fixed party since you never know who you'll get. Or in other words: Content that can be cleared by pugs must be suited for that 12 year old guy somewhere in Brazil playing on a toaster with a crappy connection and only understanding spanish (bit overdramatic here, but I hope you get the point)
You really need to look at the bigger picture here and think this through: Requiring YOU to make the match making allowes the devs to assume that you'll have a decent group and they can adjust the content to that.
Due to the special nature of the content (save file resetting, huge time investment) this content isnt really like your normal dungeon where a wipe means you just have to try that group again and maybe lost 5 minutes. Think about what the GMs would have to deal with and how salty the community will get over this - people entering with a small aetherpool, doing their own thing, wiping the group, not communicating (sorry, I've been playing this game for 3 years now and all of those are VERY real issues), people kicking other people etc. etc.
The ultimate conclusion for the devs would be: "Pugs cant handle the content, it has to be made easier" - bäm, there goes the challenge for everyone!

You can lone wolf it - go on, go in solo!

Dont pretend there wont be an outcry as soon as they open it up and people are getting wiped by randoms on floor 120 and have to start over again. I firmly believe that to keep the difficulty of the content we need to keep it gated like it is atm. Anything else will just lead to nerfs sooner or later, seen it happen many times, cant we just have this for ONCE like it was intended by the devs?

[Ilan]

The funny part of this is that there REALLY is NO reason to have it gated. You can choose what you want to do if you want to go it with fixed party that is YOUR choice. Don't try to dictate what I am doing based on what you want to do. No one is asking you to join a mixed party if YOU do not want to. You queue as you see fit. What is the big deal? I pay $$ and I want to have a choice that's called freedom of decision. Is there an amendment for that? How about “Freedom of Choice” is a fundamental right, grouped with a “Right to Privacy”. The Ninth Amendment alludes to it and the Fourteenth Amendment enforces it.

Ehm yeah. I want to see your cry for law if a party without a fitting composition will wipe you or if a troll will wipe you on 150+.

[Renius]

*sigh*
Again? Really? You need this explanition again?

You obviously have a different view than mine or a lot of other people on this post. Fine. I will still say :
Please open floors 101-200 to queue!!

[Renius]

Ehm yeah. I want to see your cry for law if a party without a fitting composition will wipe you or if a troll will wipe you on 150+.

Once more! No one is asking YOU to go in with mixed. What is it that you don't understand. I will be happy with the wipe as it is part of what happens with pugs I am willing to take the chance. YOU don't have to if that is YOUR CHOICE!!

[Ilan]

Once more! No one is asking YOU to go in with mixed. What is it that you don't understand. I will be happy with the wipe as it is part of what happens with pugs I am willing to take the chance. YOU don't have to if that is YOUR CHOICE!!

And YOU don't understand WHY SE locked this content. The only thing is that YOU and some others are not willing or able to find 3 other players to do the content. So it has to be open for random groupes where people will mess up like hell and the people who wanted to have this opened for DF will scream for nerfs because of DF people.

NO one keeps YOU away from finding 3 others...

[Vidu]

You obviously have a different view than mine or a lot of other people on this post. Fine. I will still say :
Please open floors 101-200 to queue!!

Sorry to put it this way: It appears to me that I (and other people...) have simply thought ahead and considered the consequenzes of putting this content into the DF. Something you dont seem to have - its great that you're okay with seeing 6 hours of play time going down the drain because somehow wipes your group, but you, as an individual isnt what we have to consider here. We have to consider that someone doesnt queue for that content without being fully aware what it means and is because its just some other content they can do now - the kind of player who enters an EX-primal without knowledge of the fight, barely reaching the ilvl (and the reason they even reach the ilvl are jewls, while the weapon is still the from the Vault) and doesnt get the conecpt of EXTREME primal at all. We have a lot of those kind of people in the game because most content is faceroll easy - to accomendate to their needs and wants, after all. They see an open queue and they'll jump in without a second thought

...but with an after thought - which is "Oh man, we wiped and now all my progress is gone?! That sucks, better make a complaint on the forums, this is outragoues and unfair! Nerf! NERF! This is to hard!"

Please take this into consideration instead of just saying "I dont mind having MY safe file ruined" - because yes, it is true ofc that I, personally, dont have to go in by DF and that my very own personal experience doesnt has to be influenced by this if I dont choose to - however it WILL influence the design and choices the devs are making for that content. No one of you guys who wnat this to be open uped has given me a decent reasurenace that this isnt gonna happen - I would really like the devs to stand their ground here and stick to their desicion... if they back down to adjust to YOUR needs now and change this content, whos telling me thats they wont do that in 3 months again to adjust to those crybabies that lost their saves? Yes, I want to have faith in the devs and thats why I'm asking to leave this content as it is.
I'm not basing my concerns on a personal experience you or I might have - I'm basing it on a bigger "statistic" that we can assume looking at what happend to lots of other content. I've seen them making many, many compromisses to accomendate to people who want to play solo but see everything - mainly ofc the addition of a NM version of raids so everyone can experience the story (killed my raiding motivation btw, but thats me, I know) - and yet you sit here and cry that you cant see those extra 10 bosses? Well, what you technically can...

...because again: if you're okay with wipes and fails - go in alone, whats stopping you?
And how is waiting in PF different from waiting in DF?

[OoglieBooglie]

Vidu basically explained the entire argument. I'll give a personal example of why it applies. Back when I was a wee little sprout, there were the coils. I was 'carried' through t1-4 without really realizing I was being carried. Didn't have much problem with the fights (This was after 2.4 came out, probably a month or two). I still have no idea if I was pulling my weight or not for those, but that's not the point. Then there was t5 and Twintania. The group I was with decided to do it another day. Since I was most likely carried through t1-4, I had no idea there was stuff that actually took a significant amount of effort to clear. And so, I went in t5 with no idea what to do, no practicing my rotation (I used my fire stuff as a blm, but I was far from great), and almost certainly barely meeting the ilvl to get in.

How do you think that went? I can guarantee you this kind of thing WILL happen. I obviously know now what I did then, but there's a constant influx of new players who have not learned that yet. And with all the lvl 50 stuff just being plowed through unsynced, there's even less to teach them that bad play will kill the entire group. Now yes, I COULD always only go in with a premade party. But here's the thing: Vidu was right about the accessibility of content affecting the difficulty. And what's more, there is even a pattern of SE doing just that in the past. Have you not seen the nerfs done to the raids when they were added to the duty finder? They do that entirely BECAUSE the content is added to the duty finder! It's because there is no guarantee of a composition that can even deal with the mechanics. For example, a6s required someone with the ability to silence the first boss at just the right moment, or else it was almost certainly a guaranteed wipe.

I know very well that you're thinking this won't matter for palace of the dead. But I can almost certainly tell you that it will not be as smooth as you think it will be. You won't get very far with a df group without healers. The mobs on the highest floors will murder the squishier classes without a single thought. Or perhaps you think you can clear floor 200 with only 4 machinists? It is this fact that REQUIRES that certain party compositions be excluded from df. Once you start requiring tanks and healers, queue times drastically increase. That kills a lot of the participation right there due to queue times. Add to that the requirement that you can only be on a specific set of floors on a specific class/job (similar to savage raid finder queuing without the job requirement), and the available pool shrinks further. Add to that the penalty of starting back at floor 51 if you wipe, and that MASSIVELY shrinks the available population even more. The community is going to be paranoid about getting matched with bad players, because let's face it, there is always that one person that queues into sophia extreme for the first time with 'duty completion' selected as the purpose, also having a large impact on the number of people who will queue. At this point, queue times are going to be so long that you will probably get a queue for a12s on the NA datacenters faster than you will get a queue for the later floors to pop.

So what can SE do about this? They can remove the penalty for wiping on the later floors. This would certainly boost people queing. They can nerf the mobs so a party of 4 machinists can survive the onslaught. This would ensure most groups could clear it regardless of composition. A few other things and it would be fine for df. BUT WAIT, NOW IT'S NOT THE SAME. THE DF OPTION HAS AFFECTED THE OTHER PEOPLE.