Page 8 of 20 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 18 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 196
  1. #71
    Player
    Rawrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Sir Rawrz
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Honestly, Cure III stresses me out as an SCH. I would much rather my WHM co-heal use Medica with me popping indom, than her trying to Cure III bomb. We have a Ninja and a Dragoon who just looooove their positionals and sometimes that results in one of them not being stacked close enough to get healed before Whirlwind, resulting in Lustrates or Death. ._.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    Celestial opposition has other usage, it's primary use are for card benefits extension, collective unconscious benefits on top of regen stack extension, light speed, or to stop an excessive pull from killing your tank. You seem to misunderstand the point of celestial opposition. It's not just a skill to use just for myself. (I'd Hope to be the class that uses their skills for others) And believe me, setting all this up perfectly ain't a trip in the park. I've seen AST cause a party to fail because they wanted to use this skill for EVERYTHING.
    Also, this bugged me. You have 30 seconds to press Celestial Opposition to extend the duration of Cards. You have plenty of time to squeeze out an extended Luminiferous Aether. One of the best parts of playing AST is the sheer flexibility it has. So yes, good ASTs will extend the duration of their MP regen, regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    Divine Seal:

    Increases healing magic potency by 30% for 15s. CD 60 Seconds

    Vs.

    Synastry

    Increases healing actions by 20%, Synast. target receives 40% of healing done. 90 second CD


    **Synastry excell's at healing multiple targets if your mt will survive enough with the 40% part heal. However, the over all healing power both long term and short still not as powerful as a 30% divine seal. However, the potency can be matched when within Nocturnal Sect.

    **Divine Seal with its shorter CD can be used in multiple situations where the whm wishes to rapidly burst heal a MT, or the whole party. Comparing the 30% modifier every 60 seconds to the 20% every 90 seconds shows quite the difference in heal power.



    *Divine Seal requires 30 seconds less

    Double also, you realize that Synastry is a blunt force heal right? It is probably the most powerful healing CD in the game. With a crit Benefic, IT IS a Benediction.

    Say you heal for 10k with cure II.
    Divine Seal. Cure IIs are now 13k.

    Alright. Synastry time. You heal 10k with an Equally Geared Diurnal AST (Not even factoring in the HPS of Diurnal or the Raw boost of Nocturnal.)
    You heal the Tank for 12k. Nope, not exactly. You healed him for 12k + (12k*.4) which results in 16.8k heals. [ASTs also have a proc that tells them that have a Crit Benefic II in their pocket. Which can restore ANY CLASS to maximum.]

    So 13k Cure IIs on demand every 45 seconds (60 seconds-15 second duration), compared to 16.8k every 70 (90 seconds - 20 second duration., can also be extended with Celestial opposition to 30 seconds).

    Strange Number to build a relation between the two:
    13k/45= 289 VS 16.8k/70=240. If you factor in Diurnal's Speed boost its 252.

    Yay, WHM is winning right? Well its not. The thing is, you have to look at the WHOLE toolkit. You can't look at 1 skill side by side and say which is better. You need to see the synergy. What about Disable? Reduce Damage taken by 10% every 60 seconds for 6 seconds? That skill alone reduces all outgoing damage by 10% for 10% of the fight! That might seem like 1%, but not all phases are equal. You pop it when applicable, just as you are unlikely to pop Divine Seal during a lull, just because its off the CD. A wild bole appearing after a shuffle fish for a balance, gives you even more mitigation.

    WHM has "Big Heals."
    AST has almost as "Big Heals," but much more raw mitigation through disable alone. This results in AST being the stronger healer, because it has less it has to heal, because the damage never took place, so they aren't even factored into the equation for comparison.

    [BTW, I love AST as it is now. Its pretty refreshing from SCH. It is a beast of its own. WHM won't probably receive love until 4.0, but I hope they focus on the duality of White Magic. Magic that gives and takes, like Assize.]
    (9)
    Last edited by Rawrz; 12-02-2016 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #72
    Player
    Exiled_Tonberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Sharl Llyntine
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    No honey, if you use Luminiferous Aether when you're at full MP. That would be something wrong.
    I think this is a playstyle that holds ASTs back. Most of them think you have to pop your extenders ASAP. With cards and regens you have 30 seconds and with Luminiferous Aether you have 24 seconds.

    You can either pop it early and stay at full MP, or pop it at around 20 seconds and still extend everything. AST is very flexible.

    @Rawrz: YES! Seriously both the MP cost and the range of Cure III are pretty maddening. This was fine in 2.0 but WHM has a lot more competition now. The range of Cure III right now is rather silly. I get they don't want it to replace medica, but it really should be larger than 5yalms or whatever it is right now.
    Rarely are people stacked so close.
    (4)

  3. #73
    Player
    Docteur_Fluttershy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    75
    Character
    Docteur Fluttershy
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    @cleftobismal
    i love how you specify that divine seal has a shorter CD, but kind of try to avoid telling synastry has longer duration...
    You clearly said the duration of divine seal though...
    (4)

  4. #74
    Player Cleftobismal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Clefto Bismal
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Originally the thread was aimed towards the lack of things to do on a WHM. We've already discussed how WHM's are the better healers and here we are still floating in circles. Honestly, just play another class if you don't want to be a dedicated healer pre-4.0. It is our job to keep everyone alive. I'm sorry to hear you feel like you are being left out or threatened that for some odd reason, despite your ability to keep everyone alive, you think nobody will want you anymore. But in all serious talk, while I agree WHM should have access to some defensive utilities to help a CD challenged tank (Cushioning magic/element damage, enhancing auto attacks on melee characters.). I disagree with WHM going in the realm of increasing DPS like an AST and being able to mitigate damage like Galvanize/Nocturnal. I was sort of having fun with the debate but now I just see nothing but repetitive malice (Or the lack of an Open mind). Good luck to you all.

    (1)
    Last edited by Cleftobismal; 12-02-2016 at 11:16 PM.

  5. #75
    Player
    Ghishlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,142
    Character
    Ghishlain Pyrial
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    Originally the thread was aimed towards the lack of things to do on a WHM. We've already discussed how WHM's are the better healers and here we are still floating in circles. Honestly, just play another class if you don't want to be a dedicated healer pre-4.0. It is our job to keep everyone alive. I'm sorry to hear you feel like you are being left out or threatened that for some odd reason, despite your ability to keep everyone alive, you think nobody will want you anymore. But in all serious talk, while I agree WHM should have access to some defensive utilities to help a CD challenged tank (Cushioning magic/element damage, enhancing auto attacks on melee characters.). I disagree with WHM going in the realm of increasing DPS like an AST and being able to mitigate damage like Galvanize/Nocturnal. I was sort of having fun with the debate but now I just see nothing but repetitive malice (Or the lack of an Open mind). Good luck to you all.
    I would like to think most people in this thread understand that there won't be any real change on WHM until 4.0 hits and a lot of posts in this thread are designed to provide feedback. While I don't think any one has been particularly malicious (maybe passive aggressive or childish at best), I think it's important that everyone has an open mind too. As it stand you have also been quite stubborn in your stance regarding WHM and your opinion that they are a dedicated healer when AST can easily be the same "dedicated healer" in the raid while providing additional utility on top of it. When I think of "dedicated healer" I think of a healer that is leaps and bounds ahead of any other healer in outright raw healing potential but that's clearly not the case here when comparing WHM to AST. Heck, I'm in the minority opinion that AST potential HPS actually surpasses WHMs potential HPS, and that's a scary thought when a job that's designed to be provide powerful party buffs out heals the dedicated healer in the game while being able to do their secondary functions with little hindrance.

    I will say, all the healers are viable, but the divide in healer balance comparing WHM to SCH and AST is getting larger and larger and I'm hoping that's rectified in 4.0. Personally, I feel S-E dev team has lost touch with the healer base since 3.2. The buff to Luminious Aether was totally unnecessary and then the changes implemented to Celestial Opposition and partially to Enhanced Benefic II (I wish they divide the trait based on the sect you were in) basically told me they have no idea what they're doing at this time. I'm hoping what they're doing is throwing a massive bone to AST just to remove the AST stigma from 3.0 then going for a MASSIVE overhaul of AST in 4.0. I'm not going to be surprised if they rework EVERY card in 4.0 and thus remove the 20% Balance in the process. Balance is one of the most unbalanced things in the game ATM, heh.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if you'll read this but I do agree that some ideas are pretty crazy from some of the other posters and I wish you well and take care in your healing travels.
    (4)
    Last edited by Ghishlain; 12-02-2016 at 11:48 PM. Reason: More words!!!!!!!

  6. #76
    Player
    Rivxkobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    421
    Character
    Carmine Altair
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    Originally the thread was aimed towards the lack of things to do on a WHM. We've already discussed how WHM's are the better healers and here we are still floating in circles.
    Seriously you just seem to post without actually reading anything anyone says.

    WHMs are marginally better at raw healing. And only you have stated that that is "enough". While ignoring how that is literally all they bring in the end. Instead of talking down to people maybe you should actually try having a discussion. (the gif is unnecessary) AST was buffed too much. You are an AST main, and its blatantly obvious. I am too, when I heal, but I am more than willing to admit AST is a much better Job currently than WHM when it comes to most any thing. Except some dungeons. Hell, as an AST doing dungeon runs I can Shield between pulls and then swap to Diurnal. AST has hardly (if any) weaknesses currently and it causes WHM to become less necessary or desirable.


    My main gripe with all this is that with all the DPS we have, they are all pretty balanced, yet we only have three healers and Square can't seem to keep them balanced at all. I'm not even going to get into the mess that is WAR and tanks. Which again there are only three of.

    Also how does discussing WHM being better healers have to do with the original aim of this thread? The part I quote literally makes no sense. Healing is the core part of our job, being able to heal "more" doesn't somehow erase that there is little to do otherwise. If anything, it exacerbates it.
    (3)

  7. #77
    Player
    Roll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    361
    Character
    Roland Starwind
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleftobismal View Post
    the lack of an Open mind
    Oh the hypocrisy.

    The WHM/AST comparisons are very apparent during Savage raiding which is where their tool kits and performance get compared.

    You say White Mage "Is the better healer" but you've conveniently looked over and ignored every post made disagreeing with you that they are essentially 1:1 in terms of healing while AST offers more utility (Cards), mitigation (Disable, Collective Unconsciousness, Nocturnal Shields, Bole), and MP regen and sustainability to name a few.

    I'm not trying to talk down on you or anything but I see that you only have AST leveled to 60 while your White Mage is at 34 and with no savage gear.
    So basically your experience with White Mages is on face roll content where they do perfectly fine on so you don't see much a problem.
    (4)

  8. #78
    Player
    NorthernLadMSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,223
    Character
    Adore Mi
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    I get the feeling these threads won't stop until AST has been nerfed back down to their 3.0 version when no one wanted them in parties and statics were forcing new ASTs to switch back to SCH or WHM.
    (4)

  9. #79
    Player
    Ghishlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,142
    Character
    Ghishlain Pyrial
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP View Post
    I get the feeling these threads won't stop until AST has been nerfed back down to their 3.0 version when no one wanted them in parties and statics were forcing new ASTs to switch back to SCH or WHM.
    Threads like these will never stop in any MMORPG where there are limited role slots and more jobs / classes than role slots. It's important for both the developers and readers to be able to sift through the zealots of any job and find the important talking points of any discussion. Making hyperbolic statements regarding the discussion doesn't contribute anything meaningful either.

    I don't want AST nerfed back to the 3.0 era but I also feel strongly about how unnecessary the AST buffs from 3.2 and onward felt too and either ASTs need to be tuned back down to be more balanced or WHMs need to be tuned up to match AST and SCH. Of course, again, as re-iterated throughout this thread by multiple posters, any balance changes / additions most likely won't come until 4.0.
    (3)

  10. #80
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,920
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    I dont think the raid population is large enough to base basically everything off of them. I hope they do things for whm because I love whm, and I havent started astro yet because that will be my last class to level. But these treads are like always only considering raid content when not even half the games population even raids I dont really understand that.
    (0)

Page 8 of 20 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 18 ... LastLast