WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[VanilleFang]

Any healer can heal any content at the moment. With that in mind, take healing out of the equation all together. Even if WHM can heal slightly higher numbers, that doesn't change the fact that all healer's can heal everything. There is nothing that you HAVE to have one healer over another in order to meet HPS checks


So with that out of the way, what do you have left? If you accept that all healers can heal all content, than you will come to a realization. It's everything else in their kit that separates the healers from one another, not the amount they heal.

[Cleftobismal]

And I Re-Iterate:


Wait for SE to release 4.0. All the healers are in a good standing. No one is unable to heal anything right now. I still disagree to the statement that the majority of players are rejecting WHM because you feel you do less than a SCH and an AST. A healers job is to keep everyone alive, anything else is an additive feature. WHM's you do a spectacular job in add clearing more so than a AST can. And more immediate than a Scholar. This is both Raid and Dungeon. WHM's you also require the least amount of spell casting to top up everyone's HP. That's one of the reasons why your mana cost is higher than anyone else's. You also do a great job at inflicting immediate damage as you scale very well with spell speed better than the other two classes. Sch's will always outshine you when it comes to taking care of Tanks and managing Tank busters. At the same time, no one will heal better than your class when it comes to party wide damage. Your dps is actually better than an AST. And the MP cost on said DPS skills are practically the same. And for those of you who don't care for spellspeed or have an extra materia slot, WHM your class scales excellently with Piety Melds. Even a fully Piety meld WHM have cleared end game raids without back breaking work. SCH will always be the best class for mana refreshment. And Using Celestial opposition on AST during Luminiferous Aether is situational. Sometimes I just use it for light speed. Most of the times i use it to extend cards. (Including boosted or extended ones on single targets with time dilation) Just because our class can extend our MP regen duration doesn't mean it's there to use all the time. Because sometimes i have to use that spell offensively to control mobs if our tank is in trouble.


I see soo many positives of the class but you guys just wan't more skills to fill up your hot bars. Instead, use what you can do right now to remind not just others but yourselves that: "Hey, It's just an added bonus, but I still clear adds better and faster than the other healers, I do hold something over them that they don't have."




TLDR: Wait for 4.0. Have fun with what you have right now.

[Cleftobismal]

Introducing . . .. .


White Magic to Sate your Hunger to press Keys

Pray: Stock's a Prayer. Up to 3 Times.

Prayer: Consumes all Prayer Charges for an effect. 1 Stock3: 3% max hp 3% max mp recovery to Self. 2 Stock3: 5% max hp and 5% Max mp to party. 3 Stocks: 10% Max hp and 10% Max mp to party. [Shares a Cooldown with Pray]

Nul-Spell: Reduces elemental damage taken for a short period of time. [Cannot be used on self] Single target.

En-Spell: Bestows a random element onto the target's Auto-Attacks. If attack is melee, also dots the target with the aspected element. If attack is ranged, will do a surrounding aoe with aspect-ed element. [Cannot be used on self] Single Target.

Faith: Increases targets magic attack potency damage while reducing magic damage taken. [Cannot be used on self] Single Target.

Reflect: For a moderate duration. 15% chance to reflect most spells. [Can not be used on self] Single Target.

Shell: Single target spell that reduces magic damage taken. [Cannot be used on self]


You're Welcome.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

So with that out of the way, what do you have left? If you accept that all healers can heal all content, than you will come to a realization. It's everything else in their kit that separates the healers from one another, not the amount they heal.

This is quite possibly the best quote regarding healer identity I've seen yet.

@Cleftobismal: I will admit they're strong in dungeons, but that's in dungeons. None of their great CC or aoe matters in raid where saving MP means more than spamming holy on the adds in A12s.

Also about your comment with Luminiferous Aether and Celestial opposition. They're both on the same CD timer for a reason. If you're not using these together to get maximum MP efficiency You're doing something wrong.

[Cleftobismal]

This is quite possibly the best quote regarding healer identity I've seen yet.

@Cleftobismal: I will admit they're strong in dungeons, but that's in dungeons. None of their great CC or aoe matters in raid where saving MP means more than spamming holy on the adds in A12s.

Also about your comment with Luminiferous Aether and Celestial opposition. They're both on the same CD timer for a reason. If you're not using these together to get maximum MP efficiency You're doing something wrong.

No honey, if you use Luminiferous Aether when you're at full MP. That would be something wrong.


Celestial opposition has other usage, it's primary use are for card benefits extension, collective unconscious benefits on top of regen stack extension, light speed, or to stop an excessive pull from killing your tank. You seem to misunderstand the point of celestial opposition. It's not just a skill to use just for myself. (I'd Hope to be the class that uses their skills for others) And believe me, setting all this up perfectly ain't a trip in the park. I've seen AST cause a party to fail because they wanted to use this skill for EVERYTHING.

WHM's are the best healers in clearing adds, which are also in raids. The class is strong. I don't see WHM's struggling with anything but their own lack of pride and confidence.

[DreamWeaver]

@Cleftobismal

I honestly don't give a damn about buffing WHM or nerfing AST or nuking SCH.

I am just trying my best to curb misinformation about WHM having much superior healing compared to the AST.

You can argue with the rest all you want, but I do hope you stop using the above "fact" in your argument, when it is factually wrong.

[Cleftobismal]

Snip

Divine Seal:

Increases healing magic potency by 30% for 15s. CD 60 Seconds

Vs.

Synastry

Increases healing actions by 20%, Synast. target receives 40% of healing done. 90 second CD


**Synastry excell's at healing multiple targets if your mt will survive enough with the 40% part heal. However, the over all healing power both long term and short still not as powerful as a 30% divine seal. However, the potency can be matched when within Nocturnal Sect.

**Divine Seal with its shorter CD can be used in multiple situations where the whm wishes to rapidly burst heal a MT, or the whole party. Comparing the 30% modifier every 60 seconds to the 20% every 90 seconds shows quite the difference in heal power.



*Divine Seal requires 30 seconds less

Presence of Mind:
Increases spell speed by 20% for 15s. 150sCD

vs.

Light Speed

Reduces MP cost for spells by 25% and cast times for spells by 2.5 seconds while reducing attack magic potency by 25% for 10 seconds. 150 Second CD

**Light speed is a wonderful skill to turn skill incantation times like Gravity into near instant to spam. It also reduces the mp cost of such skill so such a spam will not majorly tank the AST mp. It is also a great tool to use to repetitively cast aoe heals and instant spam Malefics. At the price of our dps, it is such a worthy trade to use our skills during the duration. However without the use of celestial opposition, the skill duration is rather quick.

**Presence of mind is a steroid for the class. It's whopping 20% SS increase will not only increase the rate of such spells initiating. But it also effects the Tics of Regens and Dots. Effectively increasing both HPS and DPS on skills such as medica hots, Aero Dots, and regens. The CD seems a bit long in my opinion. But still does it's work within the 15 seconds.


Lastly

Cure 3 - Restores HP of all party members within range of target. Cure potency: 550

VS.

Nothing - Nothing

Nothing compares to this spell as it's an exclusive top tier aoe heal that will save your party from dangerous levels. Swift cast, divine seal, and presence of mind works extremely well with this skill. Mana will be an issue if this skill is constantly relied on but that can be fixed with piety melds or a class to recover your MP. [AST, BRD, MCH]



If i recall you linked this correct?

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...t=5&metric=hps

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...metric=tankhps


This data doesn't prove anything in how much over healing you do and don't do. All this tell's me is the WHM class heals the best. If it does tell me the over healing data, please elaborate for me in how I can view it so I can better understand the point you try to reason with me. Thank you in advance.

[DreamWeaver]

PoM does not increase Spell Speed anymore since launch of HW...its a flat increase to Attack Speed (in this case its reducing cast time by 20%), thus it has no effect on DoTs or HoTs.

I'm not denying WHM heal the best, I'm just saying although WHM is best in healing, AST is just 10% behind WHM in AoE healing, and 3% behind in tank healing, and if you think that's strong enough, then there's honestly no argument between us anymore, since we compare things differently.

DS is indeed the most powerful tool a WHM have in its arsenal, I will not deny that. I miss this god damn skill so much when i played as an AST.

I can write an entire post regarding the newbie trap skill Cure III, but here's the gist of it:
1) Medica II heals for more and at lesser MP cost.
2) Cure III MP cost is way overtuned
3) In situations where people must be topped ASAP and cannot wait for Medica II ticks, a Cure III + your co healer's heal usually results in overhealing.
3a) Well that's good right?! Means my co healer can save a GCD, he can go dps or something.
3b) But out of 3 healers, WHM has the WORST MP recovery, unless you are speed killing where every GCD counts, it is always better to use Medica II +co healer's AoE heal.

Don't get me wrong, I love Cure III, it had helped me prolong a progression fight a minute or two for us to see/practice the next set of mechanics, and that's my personal opinion of what a WHM's identity is:
The healer that can drag your carcass along for a minute or two in a fight (and I love it).

[Cleftobismal]

Thank you for Enlightening me on PoM.

Personally a 10% HPS efficiency (If this is game wide) is an incredible gain. Can only imagine what would happen if SCH gained 10% more if they did now. Tank healing should always be similar, as keeping them alive is essentially keeping the party alive for the most part. (SCH's will always remain on top when it comes to mitigating damage for tanks as we all know)magic


If SE were to be generous, it may be interesting to see WHM have mechanics exclusively effecting magic defense and element resistance. (Single Target wise to be used on the MT for tank busters.) I can at-least see how unfair it can be that SCH and AST can help a Cooldown challenged tank from messing up.

[Roll]

Divine Seal:

Increases healing magic potency by 30% for 15s. CD 60 Seconds

Vs.

Synastry

Increases healing actions by 20%, Synast. target receives 40% of healing done. 90 second CD

Don't forget the 10% healing potency Astrologians have just being in Nocturnal Sect so they're 30%/30% right there. They're also able to extend the duration of Synastry with Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition.

Also on your Presence of Mind vs. Light Speed point, Astrologians also have Arrow/Enhanced Arrow/Extended Arrow as another "Do stuff faster" move.

There's no doubt that White Mage can hold it's own during dungeons and 24-man raids but in Savage raids they clearly get the short end of the stick when compared to the other 2.

Here are just a few of the shortcomings:

Their MP regen fails in comparison to Lumineferous Aether/Celestial Opposition/Ewer/Extended Ewer/Enhanced Ewer.
ALL of their DPS spells can miss. AST and SCH at least have a few spells that are 100% accuracy.
Yeah Cure III is a strong cure bomb but it's so situational that most of the time Medica 2 will be the better option anyway because of the range/regen/mp cost.

Here's a few more balancing issues:
I have WHM and AST in equal ilvl gear; my Nocturnal Astrologian heals more with with Benefic than Cure, heals more with Benefic 2 than Cure 2, heals more with Helios than Medica and they naturally have a reduced MP cost.
Lightspeed also reduces this MP cost even further as well.

As for the "Scholar has the best shields" thing you said earlier, you do realize with the big buff with Nocturnal Sect that Astrologian shields are on par, if not even more potent than Scholars? This is more clear when used with Synastry. Not only that but they have an instant Adloquium at a lower MP cost(Nocturnal Aspected Benefic) which is ideal for tank busters.

I'd love to see all 3 healers be equally awesome. SE has stated many times that they encourage our feedback on the forums; that's one of the ways they become aware of balancing issues to tweak in future patches and there is clearly an imbalance. It's to the point where Sophia herself is like: