Thread: DevTalk: Class Rebalancing Post 1.19

Update 1: Typos and additional changes to PGL, ARC, GLA
Update 2: Added "DPS through diversity" concept to promote cooperation and diversity: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...llChains2.0%29

Originally Posted by Bayohne

Hey all you CNJs! The team is planning for a full revamp of all actions in 1.20 and will be looking into adjusting things like the amount of enmity gained from cures. So please feel free to provide more feedback and I'll be sure we pass along your thoughts!

Here are my thoughts on overall class identity and balance:

Goals for class balance:

Each class should have multiple things that they are good at. Balance is achieved by having some classes be a little better at other classes in certain areas, but no class should be vastly inferior.

Each class should be fun to play. Players find fun in being useful, whether it be by dealing damage, healing damage, mitigating damage, or buffing/debuffing.

At least two viable "builds" or "specs" per class:
("pure" DD like LNC and ARC really don't need this since DD is a common role)

GLA: tank and DD
MRD: tank and DD
PGL: tank and DD
LNC: DD and support
ARC: DD and support
CNJ: DD, heal, and support
THM: DD, heal, and support

Give certain skills additional bonuses for using them on their main class (This does NOT mean gimping skills when they are cross classed)

Problems with the current class balance:

Some classes are inferior to other classes in too many ways. People end up not wanting to use those classes, and players who main those classes feel useless. (Pugilists and Archers).

Some classes are only good at doing one thing, so when that role is filled in a party, they are out of luck. (Gladiator).

Not much incentive to use certain skills on their main class when they can be cross-classed on a class that is better. (e.g. No point in using "Blindside" on a native PGL when I can just use it on LNC more effectively. )

Some abilities and weaponskills have useless and have no purpose: (e.g. Hawk's Eye, Onion Cut, Discerning Eye, etc)

General outline for class changes:

GLA:
Needs to be better at single-target damage mitigation (better than MRD and PGL).
Buff shield skills, allow shield to slightly mitigate (but not nullify) enemy weapon skills, allow shield to block ranged attacks, enable parrying.
Needs to be able to do more damage, overall.
Needs to be able to respec to a DD build, if there is already a tank in the party.

MRD:
Pretty good already, changes not really needed.
Good single and multi-mob tank, good DPS already.

PGL:
Needs a lot of work.
Buff evasion skills, buff HP recovery skills, make "evasion tank" build more viable
Buff damage output
PGL's short range needs to either be eliminated, or balanced out by higher damage or higher defense

LNC:
Pretty good already, changes not really needed.
Godly DPS and support skills already.

ARC:
1.19 nerfs made ARC totally not fun at all. Roll back the nerfs slightly, but retain aspects that made ARC fun.
Allow for high spike damage, but less often for balance
Allow for greater mobility to offset low HP and defense
Allow for greater range to offset low HP and defense

CNJ & THM:
Pretty good already, changes not really needed.
If anything, make mage DD on Ifrit more viable.


DPS Generated through cooperation:

The upcoming combo system will hopefully lead to greater depth in combat strategy. We don't know much about it yet, but I'm hoping that it will encourage cooperation and class diversity by having those be the means to increasing your DPS and available tools.

I made a thread earlier about this, which you can read in more detail here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...llChains2.0%29

Basically, I want a system where the presence of a diverse party will allow you to put together more complex combos that do more damage and have varying effects.

A current Ifrit party has all lancer DDs, but with a combo system that promotes diversity, replacing one lancer with a different class will allow you to construct better, more damaging combos.

For example, there are only a limited number of ways that 2 players of the same class can combo moves, but two players of different classes have a lot more combos to choose from since there are more valid combo chains that can be formed between two different classes.

General outline for tank class balance:

• GLA should excel at damage mitigation vs single targets via shield skills
• MRD should excel at being an HP sponge, holding threat against multiple targets, and increasing battle effectiveness through "Steadfast"
• PGL should excel at evading damage and HP recovery.
• MRD and PGL tanks should not be able to match the durability of a GLA using a shield, but should be able to outdamage GLA tanks slightly to make up for this.
• Each of the 3 classes has a slight advantage in different tanking situations, but none are vastly inferior. Each can be easily replaced by the other with minimal fear of "gimping". Player skill is still the overwhelming factor in performance.

Detailed Class Changes:

I'll start with the classes that currently suck the most: PGL ARC and GLA.

[SIZE=5]Pugilist[/SIZE][SIZE=5]:
[/SIZE]
Currently, no one wants to use PGL on Ifrit or stronghold parties because:

1. It's not as good a tank as GLA or MRD
2. It's not as good DD as LNC or MRD

Goals -

1. Make PGL a viable tank compared to GLA and MRD
2. Make PGL a viable DD compared to LNC (viable, not better)

Mechanics Changes:
Set the auto-attack range to be the same as LNC, except the farther away from the target you are, the less damage you do. This will help against the PGL's main problem of fighting Ifrit.

Put in more debuff-proccing items for PGL like "Disabling Baugnakhs" back into the game. Debuff weapons have a small chance to break through the resistance of a mob that would otherwise be immune to that debuff when cast as a spell or used as a potion. (Thanks ShiShi)


Skill Changes -

Light Strike: Defense/EVA up, attack/crit down, lasts 2 minutes (1.5 min cooldown)
Flurry: Defense/EVA down, attack/crit up, lasts 2 minutes (1.5 min cooldown)

This is to incorporate the "stances" idea that they seemed to have abandoned. If you tank, you will use Light Strike, if you DD, you will use Flurry.

Heavy Strike: Add it back into the game

Pummel: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.

Second Wind: (PGL only perk) cooldown is 30 seconds

Featherfoot: (PGL only perk) dodge 2 attacks instead of 1

Victimize: Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds. It's not fair that LNC have both Chaos Thrust and Doomspike at their disposal.

Blindside: (PGL only perk) Slightly increased damage in addition to the critical bonus, as well as procs "Slow" debuff on target(s). Gives more incentive to use Follow Through as a tank.

Presence of Mind: Make it last longer and have it actually noticeably work. Also increase overall evade proportionally to DEX.

Concussive Blow: Increase the duration and effectiveness of "Concussive Blow x3" status so that there's actually an incentive to using this WS 3 times.

Seismic Shock: Cone AOE. Increase damage. Slight knockback effect.

Aura Pulse: Reduce cooldown to 5 seconds, and slightly boost damage, so that PGL have an AOE skill that can sort of compete with Storm's Path.

Haymaker/Jarring Strike: Reduce TP cost to 100 TP

Simian Thrash: Remove evade requirement, make it work just like chaos thrust.
[SIZE=5]

[/SIZE] [SIZE=5]Archer:
[/SIZE]
No one wants to use ARC on Ifrit or stronghold because:

1. Animation lock
2. Low DPS on single and multiple targets

Goals -

1. Make archer play more like an archer. Increase range and mobility to make up for the low HP, defense, and damage. Encourage kiting and binding as a way to prevent damage through skillful play.
2. Bring back the things about archer than made it fun before 1.19, but prevent it from being overpowered. e.g. Awesome multishot

Mechanics Changes:

Eliminate the animation lock from light shot, close shot, heavy shot, and multishot

Increase the range of light shot, close shot, and heavy shot

Accuracy and damage decreased when at close range

Accuracy and damage increased when at long range


Skill Changes:


Multishot: Cooldown increased to 30 seconds, +200 enmity per use (about the same enmity generation as one taunt). Buffs are no longer divided per arrow, so damage works the same as in 1.18. ( The point is to keep spike damage high, since that was fun, but not let you use it so often because that was OP. In the meantime offer other ways to do steady damage and debuff the mob)

Trifurcate: MP cost 100, recast time 180 seconds.

Scouring Strike: (Archer only perk) In addition to removing the target's buff, it steals it and gives it to you. Sort of like Contagion, but in reverse.

Quelling Strike: Allow it to be stacked with Raging Strike

Hawk's Eye: Next attack has a 33% chance to stun (only works with Light, Close, or Heavy Shot. Fully nocked light shot has 3 chances to stun)


Arrow Helix: Slight knockback effect, and chance to bind


Barrage: Increase damage to be a little less than Chaos Thrust


(I'm not sure what to do about barrage and quick nock. They're both pretty much the same skill, and quick nock is quite useless)


Bloodletter: Increase cooldown to 1 minute, increase duration of debuff, increase damage done at the end to 1.18 levels.

Shadowbind: (ARC only perk) Bind effect lasts for 1 minute


[SIZE=5]
Gladiator:[/SIZE]


GLA is not as useful as MRD on Ifrit and stronghold parties because:

1. It has nearly the same defensive capabilities as MRD and vastly inferior offense
2. Once the tank role is filled, GLA is useless as a DD

Goals -

1. Increase GLA's defensive capabilities. especially against single targets
2. Increase GLA's offensive capabilities
3. Give GLA the option to spec for DD

Mechanics Changes:

1. Allow GLA to parry
2. Have DEX influence block rate a lot more than it currently does
3. Have VIT influence the damage mitigation of blocking instead of strength so you have to choose between attack and defense.
4. Allow blocking to slightly mitigate (but not nullify) enemy weapon skill damage
5. Create 2 handed swords so that GLA can DD if necessary
6. Get rid of the "Sentinel" shield class and put all its skills into Gladiator

Skill Changes:


Rampart: (GLA only perk) cooldown reduced to 120 seconds


Red Lotus: (GLA only perk) Boost damage, adds "Burn" damage over time


Circle Slash: Boost damage


Shield Bash: 30% chance to stun if target is in the middle of a casting animation/preparing weapon skill


Still Precision: Increase attack power and TP generation, reduce evade, block, and parry to 0.


Onion Cut: Increase damage and hate generation in proportion to difference between current HP and max HP i.e. the less HP you have, the more damage you do. You should be able to do lots of damage if you are in the red.


Cover: Make the damn move actually work better.


Luminous Spire: Increase the blind debuff duration


Rage of Halone: Actually make the damage worthwhile if you are in yellow or red HP. When at green, damage should be about the same or slightly less than a 2000TP Riot Blade, when at yellow or red HP, Rage of Halone should be Gladiator's most powerful Weapon Skill. Increase TP cost to 2000.


War Drum: Generate more hate than it does now


Sentinel: (GLA only perk) for the first 5 seconds, reduce damage by 70%


Tempered Will: Increase duration, and increase elemental resistance as well


Riot Blade: Cone AOE. Increase recast time to 45 seconds. Make the animation cooler, like Cloud's limit break, "Blade Beam"

Obsess: (GLA only perk) Additionally increase block rate and critical hit chance against target by 5%

Phalanx: Reduce TP cost to 100 TP

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Idk. I would have waited at least until tomorrow for this....

Why? What difference does it make?

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Why? What difference does it make?

We are a day away from SE publishing their major class action rehaul plans (although they will come in two parts). It would be no surprise to see that publication render everything you said here incorrect about class actions post-1.20.

They (Matsui and others) have been hyping us up about these plans for quite some time now, so I expect the changes to be significant.

Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.

Originally Posted by Sephrick

This is just an out right lie. My LS has been using GLA tanks and we've been doing just fine.

I never said you wouldn't be "fine", I said GLA is not as useful as MRD.

If you use a MRD tank on Ifrit, your DPS will go up.

If you use a MRD tank for stronghold parties, your DPS will go way WAAAAYYYY up.

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

It would be no surprise to see that publication render everything you said here incorrect about class actions post-1.20.

There isn't anything "incorrect" about anything. This is just my analysis of what some of the current problems are, and how they could be fixed.

Skill Changes -

Light Strike: Defense/EVA up, attack/crit down, lasts 2 minutes (1.5 min cooldown)
Flurry: Defense/EVA down, attack/crit up, lasts 2 minutes (1.5 min cooldown)

This is to incorporate the "stances" idea that they seemed to have abandoned. If you tank, you will use Light Strike, if you DD, you will use Flurry.

by putting tp moves on a long cool down you have probably negated any dps benefit these skills have. Your tp getting moves are huge for dps in terms of extra dmg and tp building, it also allows you to make better use of skills that need specific conditions, like comrade in arms, murderous intent, dicerning eye, etc. Basically you cant increase the cool down of these skills without drastically reducing dps and usability of various skills.

But yeah, most of your post will probably need a rework when you see the new balance stuff. Even though your overall ideas may still hold up, the implementation and critiques could be very different.

Originally Posted by Physic

by putting tp moves on a long cool down you have probably negated any dps benefit these skills have. Your tp getting moves are huge for dps in terms of extra dmg and tp building, it also allows you to make better use of skills that need specific conditions,

You still have pummel.

Edit: I guess I could lower the cooldown on pummel slightly but it's already pretty fast at 30 seconds.