Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

I appreciate Yoshi and his team taking the time to provide some feedback regarding the Feast. It's nice to feel heard when there are quite a few glaring issues with the matchmaking as it is now. It's frustrating that there are definitely things that need to be tweaked, but I do have to say that... for the first truly competitive PvP 'season', it's not bad!

That said... regarding Yoshi's comment about possibly having two 'groups' for matchmaking purposes. Right now, there seems to be a real 'wall' for people trying to progress beyond Silver. They might get up to their Gold qualifier and be denied several times, all due to being matched with Unranked or low Bronze players with very little experience in the arena. And should they get to Gold, there is always the possibility to derank due to being matched with lower tiered players (considering you can't derank from Bronze, it's not much better than someone who is Unranked). If the two groups are assigned as he mentioned, Unranked/Bronze/Silver and Gold/Platinum/Diamond, I fear this will not help with the hurdle that has been created for the Silver players trying to reach Gold. If anything, it may make the situation worse... because they will always have the possibility of being matched with Unranked/Bronze (rather than Gold/Platinum, as is currently possible).

If there were even rank distribution across most ranks, I would suggest the following groups:
Unranked/Bronze
Silver/Gold
Platinum/Diamond

But... the obvious problem here is that there are waaaaay less Platinum/Diamond players than any other tier. Their queue would take forever and a day.

To alleviate the issue I described above (of silver people having a hard time making it to gold), perhaps Silver could be split into two unofficial tiers (for matchmaking purposes).

Therefor, we'd have...

Unranked/Bronze/Low Silver
High Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond

Obviously, the game would attempt to match Gold/Platinum/Diamond before pulling in a high silver, but it might make the odds a bit better for someone attempting to reach gold.

Alternatively, perhaps the 'High Silver' would only be pulled into the upper tier IF they are currently working on their Gold qualifier. In my mind, I feel like it makes sense that you should have to play against people in the tier you are trying to reach to qualify for that tier, right? :S

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Since making my last post, I, as a Silver tier healer, been consistently paired up with an unranked healer.
To make it "fair" the game gives me an unranked dps.

This is far from fair. My teams have been unable to get kills, they rarely listen to directions and at times simply run off to the other side of the arena for no real reason. Everyones new at some point, yes. But the basic new healer (never has been another scholar, mind you...) can keep their players up while their experienced DPS mows us down once I'm exhausted. The carry is entirely on the DPS, as good or as bad as a healer can be (and yeah I've had my bad plays) so matching class to class would be much preferred instead of an collective team based tier average.

I do fine if I'm against another experienced healer. They're some of the most fun matches, but usually because our DPS are on equal footing as well.
But hey I'm just salty that 45 minutes is enough for me to lose 100 points. But it has gotten to the point where I won't even queue up if I know one of the unranked healers are in queue, because it'll give me a tactical disadvantage to doing so.

As far as melee rankings go it's: MNK > DRG >NIN

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

DRG is easily the worst melee of the bunch with its very noticeably inferior mobility compared to the other 2 melee

MNK/NIN mobility verse every other Job's mobility is barely noticeable when it matters, what is it 10%? Simply Sprinting (no cost) puts everyone on the same pace. The additional movement speed is one of the few one-ups NIN has over DRG, which is barely anything if you are trying to catch-up. Which is not really an issue with numerous gap closers/weapon throw/sprint/cc/etc. In the escape options, yes its a plus, but that is about the only avenue NIN has over both MNK/DRG.

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

its glaring lack of defensive cooldowns or tools (ala Axe kick, Shade shift, Fists of Earth, and enhanced movement speed (fists of wind/poison toggle))

MNK is superior when it comes to defense and defensive utility, hands down. NIN's Shadeshift is also fairly powerful, although it only works against Physical Attacks. MNK/DRG have Bloodbath, which is exceptionally powerful to help heal themselves if they are getting bursted while they are bursting, in which Life Surge also has additional healing. Bloodbath/Life Surge + Enhanced Keen Flurry vs Shade Shift puts DRG/NIN pretty even in the defense department

The enhanced movement is only valid when you are escaping thus meaning you are most likely on the losing end of the encounter and/or sacrificing damage to potentially alleviate/delay yourself of death. In the theory of using the movement speed to escape, you are also saving Fetter Ward for it, any decent player/team will use Stun/Heavy/Bind to catch-up and demolish you, and if you are saving it for that, that means the burst you may do will easily be interrupted.

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

its general lack of utility when compared to Ninja and Monk (who can bind, hide with medals, strip buffs, silence lock whms to secure kills in instances etc)

Monk's utility is so great because of its uniqueness, the ability to repeatedly strip buffs, enhanced Mantra, AoE Pacification, and the bonus of reducing caster damage.

NIN on the other hand has a Bind (EVERY Range/Healer has this,DRs), Grounded Heavy (sacrifices damage to do utility ninjutsu), a 3s silence (very good), 10% vuln (unreliable), slashing debuff (lol PLD damage), and the ability to Hide (which is more of an oversight than utility). The utility that stood out the most for NIN was taken completely away, which was the 20% healing down.

NIN's utility on paper seems like a lot, but take it in to an actual Lv. 60 PvP fight, and the power it once had in Patch ~3.1 Lv. 50 Den just feels so weak in comparison.

DRG's utility is mostly damage boosting with Disembowel and Battle Litany which are very strong. Battle Litany being good for offense/defense allowing healers to crit more. However DRG has taken a hit to Slow/skewer duration, albeit, the slow is still exceptionally strong.

DRG/MNK also very slightly increase tank damage just by existing in the party.

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Only thing DRG has going for it atm is the fact that MCH is so feared (and brd to a lesser extent) and therefore we work well with them for the purpose of being a disembowel and litany bi**ch. Yet I dont see any DRG's crying nearly as much as these phantom Ninjas who these repeated buffs are trying to appease.

DRG actually has a lot going for it. On top of the stuff mentioned above, it has the strongest burst of the three which is saying a lot in a game mode with win conditions centered around strongly timed burst. While NIN burst is not far behind, it is unreliable, and can be seen MILES away, more noticeable than that of a Bard. It is also easier to mitigate by simply not turning your back to them forcing them to blow a stun if they think they're gonna do a powerful burst.

Overall(NIN/DRG): DRG has superior offense/sustain, NIN/DRG similar levels of defense, NIN better utility, DRG has superior burst. DRG is just simply better.

Being able to run and hide like a b- is the only reason to bring a NIN, but it doesn't make a job good in a game mode about killing other players. Unless, of course, we are referring to solo queue in which no one knows anything about Ninja.

Even then, in order to get out of combat you have to either kill everyone or be almost 65% of the map away from the people you are in combat with. Yes, if by some miracle your team gets ahead of another equally skilled team (different comp), perhaps you can run for 3 minutes around the map. I'd just bring a BLM for that though.

Don't get me wrong, though, I adore Ninja, would love to play it again competitively, but it just isn't there.