To all the flames on primal datacenter...

[Renewhm]

Not a Flame on your Data Center. But do you guys stack a class, have a server that ques lots of premades, or just win more then the other two combined. These are generally what leads to a third place team making sure one faction doesn't win.

A certain faction used to stack the hell out of blms in slaughter and now smns. So if it seems a bad chance of winning seems we make sure that faction loses, even if those people haven't even done anything. It is tough being associated with a faction when sometimes you aren't even to blame for other teams disgust at you.

Oh forgot to add graveyard camping. That seems to lead to pure hatred from all three. If you start killing people at the spawn you better be ready for them to chase you to the ends of the map.

What this guy said. They have premades and a bunch of smns, so they have become the target.

[Renewhm]

From my end, flames are typically the ones that make the most amount of stupid mistakes that end up throwing their lead and essentially, the game. Or retroactively do things that won't get them the win (like fixating on a GC).

We have so many new players this week and last week. Our queues are still very fast, so it's really hard to reach some of these players. We have our good and bad teams.

[JubjubTubs]

As someone that tries to lead the Serpderps on Primal... Jubs monitors enemy positions/movement patterns in correletion to node locations and % left on them to determine our tactics (yes yes along with current score, node ranks, spawn locations, alliance/pty makeups, etc). Jubs is also often perplexed by Flames decision making... and all too often seems linear in making Adders pay for nothing in return. They'll do things that goes against what would benefit them, to simply stick it to Adders.

Jubs doesn't do enough PvP anymore to make this opinion worth much merit. Simply an opinion... and one that could be because Flames have some really stupid leaders making dumb decisions that ppl follow at times, maybe it's a vindictive ex-serpderp out for revenge, maybe their is a win-trading conspiracy. Eh... undecided. Seize seem more balanced on win ratios for Primal than the mess of Secure a year ago though.

[Renewhm]

and one that could be because Flames have some really stupid leaders making dumb decisions that ppl follow at times, maybe it's a vindictive ex-serpderp out for revenge, maybe their is a win-trading conspiracy. .

We have leaders and players taht don't listen. We still have problems like tunnel visioning, people not spreading out when nodes are low, and not paying attention to our maps. I'm always around 40% win ratio with flames, but, yes, we have a lot of newb players bringing us down. Some games we dominate, most we don't. I have 210 seize wins so far with mostly 2nd place wins, but I know we're not that terrible, just that we still have so many new players coming into pvp. Seize is very fun. It'll be some time till flames get their acts together fully. I mean, we're getting better. Since seize started, Ihave dropped to like 40 games more 1st than 3rd, but now I'm at 80 more wins than 3rd. We're getting better.

[Monoman]

As a flame on primal myself, it's been sort of fun watching it all develop from trying to win against the 2 to "roast those snakes in our flames if they touch us." I've even gotten in on it myself. Either adder or flames started it with a stupid play, but it carries on to the next games. Players of the previous game inform the new players or players who simply don't care about the feud and they are forced to join in or die a lonely death.

[Dimitrii]

What exactly did Mael offer you to get you to help them win this much? Are Adders allowed to counteroffer? I'm seeing a very obvious pattern of every game that gets out of the flames reach they just bum rush adders spawn and ignore mael when they are up 300 points with three spawns. It's basically every game when flames are in last. I'm just curious how this win trading came about, and if we can maybe get you to be ours goons for a weekend or something. This is exactly why gc's need to be removed, and 1v1v1 was a bad idea from the start. 1v1v1 just turns into cutthroat 2v1 and im pretty tired of 2v1. I swear im going to start taping my matches in the hopes of actually seeing flames attack whoever is in the lead once.

I'm a maelstrom from primal data center and no there is no such agreement in place. In fact alot of us on this side complain that the flames hand you guys too many wins so this is all just confirmation bias as people have already stated in thread.

Unfortunately for the flames they are the weakest of the 3 gc on primal data center (although they do have really good premades pop up once in a blue moon) and it seems alot of em there have a mentality of "oh we not gonna win anyway so lets just fk up one of the other GCs".

Once they select who it is they wanna torment they will relentlessly attack that GC, regardless of score or node placements, and what ALWAYS happens is the GC that isnt the target of this fixation will notice this and proceed to take advantage of it by throttling the victim with a pincer attack.

Both adders (don't even try to deny it we've seen it happen to us time and time again and it was happening all weekend) and maelstrom do this. Its gotten to the point where we have to think twice now about advancing on flames when they have 2 nodes cause we always have to keep our heads on a swivel waiting for that inevitable pincer that the adders will bring if we make ourselves the center of the flames attention.

I do agree that this situation is exactly why three way fights just dont work so well here (unless ALL 3 GC are more or less balanced in strength which is not the case here and will never be the case due to human element) and it should just be two teams fighting 1 v 1.

[RiceisNice]

Unfortunately for the flames they are the weakest of the 3 gc on primal data center (although they do have really good premades pop up once in a blue moon) and it seems alot of em there have a mentality of "oh we not gonna win anyway so lets just fk up one of the other GCs".

This is what really bugs me with the implementation of seize and the requirements for the achievements for both old and new (first place or bust). No matter how well your plays are, you are never in a good position to win if you're always being hounded by that GC who gives up and ultimately gets to decide who gets first and second.

Of course it's very well possible to come back from a 400 point deficit and still win, but at that point you're dependent on the other two GCs to slip up and give you a chance to do so. And well, hope you don't have a bunch of people who'd just settle for second because it honestly means moot (doesn't even give that much more currency or exp).

As the one that normally makes the calls, I hit the team that either has one or two node depending on what's the most opportunistic. If we and mael only have one nodes on the beach and close together, while flames is sitting with two on caves, I'm sure as hell not mobilizing to hit flames because I know that the maelstrom are thinking the same thing as me; Flames is too far away and their defenses will be extremely cluttered that we'd never win unless their alliance was divided (which would mean they were defending two points, which requires two GCs). Really it's a prisoner's delimina then and you're honestly not in a good position when that happens.

[Farrell]

@Dimitrii Much of what you said made a lot of sense. Thank you for the level headed response.

[JubjubTubs]

Both adders (don't even try to deny it we've seen it happen to us time and time again and it was happening all weekend) and maelstrom do this. Its gotten to the point where we have to think twice now about advancing on flames when they have 2 nodes cause we always have to keep our heads on a swivel waiting for that inevitable pincer that the adders will bring if we make ourselves the center of the flames attention.

When Jubs attempts to lead Serpderps... Jubs is trying to get people to attack the team with two nodes vs the one with one node, as the former has their forces split and is much more prone to a flank. Don't care what banner owns what... only relevant thing is 1st place, and doing the more statistical sound choices over and over will yield a higher win ratio. Notice what Jubs bolded... people listening to sound battle tactics is something else entirely. Bad players and/or bad leaders might lead to conspiracy theories.

[kudokun3]

Sounds like flames on Primal have really a bad time right now, however on Chaos we had the last weeks a better winrate:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...362.1423913563
Well I dont really care about ranking but I'm playing PvP for fun besides off instances and raids