I severely do not like Bow Mage.

[Sessurea]

To put this into perspective, unless I am in a 8man group, I hate.....HATE getting grouped with Bards and MCH. At that point I realize, my dungeon run just got longer.

I outdpsed a drg with t9 savage title at every single boss and trash pull in fractal. I guess dragoons suck...or bard dps is better than your trolling?

And I suppose we can ignore the fact that bards are out dpsing drgs in both currently cleared savage turns, yh lets forget that.

[RiceisNice]

...

It's less about the changing of gameplay itself, but what was changed about it. Hunters in WoW, even with the change to focus, remained mostly what they were; a physical ranged dps with fast-acting and spammable attacks. Standing still wasn't even a thing for them because their basic filler attack (steady shot, their "heavy shot" if you will) was also a cast time ability that'd interrupt on movement. It was that ability that would regen their focus, which was used for other abilities that were instant cast, more potent than steady shot and used focus. All were on a 1.0 GCD but did not clip each other. They went from a class that had fast-paced attacks and low GCD with sustaining problems (think ninja or monk) and used very specific skills to regen it in a short time, to what I would call a much faster-paced version of FFXIV's BLM where they have to make be extremely efficient at using and regening their resource bar to perform well. In a nutshell, they retained their core concept of gameplay.


For WM here, the need to stand still wasn't too big of a deal for me because I didn't move around that much in FCoB or any content really. The introduction of a cast bar though, puts in some very unfavorable interactions with how bard functioned in 2.0. Their oGCDs start clipping with each other and now their gameflow feels extremely fragmented when you (and you will) double up on a oGCD inbetween a weaponskill because of a bloodletter reset. It's impossible to catch straighter shot procs unless you purposely delay your weapon skill (and using a oGCD inbetween doesn't help either), and repelling shot will interrupt your cast time if you're under the influence of fey wind or just straight up have too much SkS from gear/weapon. And then there's the animations...when you look at ones like empyreal arrow and windbite you can clearly tell they were not meant to clip into an oGCD at the start of their animation... Bard went from a fast-paced reactive-proc class to a slower-pace who can't pick up on half of their reactive procs

MCH on the other hand, does this fairly well even when GB is introduced at level 52. Even when I started using it at level 54 (and it was a damage loss back in 3.05), it felt more smoother than WM because MCH does not have traits or proc timings that work against it, specifically not having oGCD reset and having a very short animation for split shot. You couldn't catch procs for slug shot in time because of the longer animation, and infact you could actually double up on clean shot because it takes so long for the proc to appear (and this was hotfixxed anyway), but no one would be hard casting slug shot anyway.

And the thing that really kicks me is, outside of their utility (which honestly the only one worth mentioning is their regen, their respective vulnerability buff/debuffs don't really stand out enough to make one appealing more than the other for a given static), the two play the same when in the influence of GB/WM. You have cast times, you upkeep a DoT, and you use oGCDs. Hell, I can't even say ammo is that unique/gimmicky to machinist because honestly it's pop and forget because it's so streamlined on what it actually does and how few abilities its worth using (2, 3 if you want to split hairs, out of their entire toolkit). I've mentioned this in a couple of other threads. When we were given the very first previews on machinist, I was under the impression that they were a ranged physical class that would deal more damage by remaining stationary, and their abilities would have special interaction with ammo (And I think there was mention of having abilities that required ammo). I feel like they missed something really nice here to diffirentiate the two. But instead of homogenizing what they bring to the table, they ended up homogenizing their gameplay too.

[Sylentmana]

I wish they would add a Bow Mage job for Archer. That would be so cool.



Here is my candidate for a new job. Make it happen SE.

[RyuDragnier]

I wish they would add a Bow Mage job for Archer. That would be so cool.



Here is my candidate for a new job. Make it happen SE.

That looks like a Bard to me!

[ShaolinMike]

Wanderer's Minuet kills BRD's mobility, but that's really the only MAJOR difference. Yes your skills all have a cast time now, but the cast times are less than the GCD, and you still have enough time to fit in an oGCD ability without clipping into you next GCD. Not to mention Bloodletter and Straight Shot procs are still instant casts. I didn't like it at first, but once you get used to it, it's actually a lot of fun to be able to stand still and fire away at stuff.

[Velhart]

Wanderer's Minuet kills BRD's mobility, but that's really the only MAJOR difference. Yes your skills all have a cast time now, but the cast times are less than the GCD, and you still have enough time to fit in an oGCD ability without clipping into you next GCD. Not to mention Bloodletter and Straight Shot procs are still instant casts. I didn't like it at first, but once you get used to it, it's actually a lot of fun to be able to stand still and fire away at stuff.

I can easily move between GCD's and be efficient. When I am actually being more mobile like the orbs in Ravana EX or dealing with Earth Shakers in T13, I switch off the stance and keep doing damage, and turn it back on.

People really should stop using the mobility excuse, you can move and shoot just fine. You just can't needlessly move and shoot at the same time. Even before the raise to lv.60, I only moved my BRD out of the way to dodge attacks.

[Sylentmana]

That looks like a Bard to me!

Then perhaps I should switch to Bard

[Aiselia]

but that's really the only MAJOR difference.

If you choose to ignore the issues with the straighter shot procs happening after the GCD ends, the lost BL/RoD procs, and the overall slower pace.

[RyuDragnier]

If you choose to ignore the issues with the straighter shot procs happening after the GCD ends, the lost BL/RoD procs, and the overall slower pace.

See BLM for how they cope with this, because this happens all the time with Firestarter procs, Thundercloud procs, and 3+ second cast times.

[Snowaeth]

See BLM for how they cope with this, because this happens all the time with Firestarter procs, Thundercloud procs, and 3+ second cast times.

And we'r back to hearing same argument.
Bad design is not something that should be promoted.
BLM should have been adjusted instead not the same bad design given to another job and made it worse in the process, because it is worse on bard.