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  1. #1
    Player
    Nektulos-Tuor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,389
    Character
    Thanatos Ravensweald
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70

    Hopefully Alexander/Savage will be 24 mans.

    8 man's are boring, I much prefer raids being like Crystal Tower. Raids should be with a lot of people, not 8. Also with the class imbalances I could see people excluding certain classes in 8 mans, however in 24 man's the new classes will be a lot more useful because of raidwide buffs/effects.
    (25)

  2. #2
    Player
    Mhikail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    370
    Character
    Kayu Lynette
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    I agree with you for once in my life lol.
    I want more 24 mans.
    (10)

  3. #3
    Player
    Slappah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Slappah Lol
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    I somewhat agree. I like bigger raids but I feel 8 man groups work very well and coil was fun and the player sized felt perfect.

    Xiv has done 24 man raids but all of which have been 100% absolutely faceroll and I honestly don't see them making any 24-man content be as difficult as coil.
    (8)

  4. #4
    Player
    Nektulos-Tuor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,389
    Character
    Thanatos Ravensweald
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Slappah View Post
    I somewhat agree. I like bigger raids but I feel 8 man groups work very well and coil was fun and the player sized felt perfect.

    Xiv has done 24 man raids but all of which have been 100% absolutely faceroll and I honestly don't see them making any 24-man content be as difficult as coil.
    The problem with 8 man's is there are classes that are simply a lot better in others in a small group. In 24 man's however the classes that are worse and specialists are better here because their effects have a greater effect over a raid.

    It is done in other games, they made them 8 man's to make them more accessable because they thought a less group would make it easier to get in. However it ended up being completely subject to elitism, and class restricting. As you can already see an Ravana EX.

    24 man's are actually more accessable because raids are willing to take a new class if they need a spot and they heard the player was decent. Whilst 8 man's are quite picky about it.
    (6)
    Last edited by Nektulos-Tuor; 07-04-2015 at 10:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Slappah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Slappah Lol
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor View Post
    The problem with 8 man's is there are classes that are simply a lot better in others in a small group. In 24 man's however the classes that are worse and specialists are better here because their effects have a greater effect over a raid.

    It is done in other games, they made them 8 man's to make them more accessable because they thought a less group would make it easier to get in. However it ended up being completely subject to elitism, and class restricting. As you can already see an Ravana EX.

    24 man's are actually more accessable because raids are willing to take a new class if they need a spot and they heard the player was decent. Whilst 8 man's are quite picky about it.
    I typed up a long response to this and accidentaly deleted it so...

    To put it shortly, I don't think S.E trusts it's playerbase to require 24 people to be 100% in sync in a a challenging encounter, and quite frankly neither do I.
    (53)

  6. #6
    Player
    Nektulos-Tuor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,389
    Character
    Thanatos Ravensweald
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Slappah View Post
    I typed up a long response to this and accidentaly deleted it so...

    To put it shortly, I don't think S.E trusts it's playerbase to require 24 people to be 100% in sync in a a challenging encounter, and quite frankly neither do I.
    Then don't make encounters that are 100% in sync. Content like that simply doesn't work with 24 mans. Make content that is challenging because it requires adaptation to a script rather then a script that must be learned and followed.

    Make fights that are never the same, even if you watch a youtube video the fights should be different via each raid. Sort of like raids in everquest, the mechanics were loose but had a bit more randomness to them that made it more about being adapted to the fighting and knowing what the boss can do rather then what it will do.

    That - is the first step to it. If you make a fight like the old coils where you know exactly what will happen you will have the 100% sync problem.
    (8)

  7. #7
    Player Zaft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    703
    Character
    Leo Strut
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor View Post
    Sort of like raids in everquest, the mechanics were loose but had a bit more randomness to them that made it more about being adapted to the fighting and knowing what the boss can do rather then what it will do.
    The problem with that is that you then have lucky and unlucky streaks that can completely skew the fight. Especially when pushing progression content, having random or semi-random encounters will cause some teams to luck out and continue on, while others get multiple shitty mechanics in a row and get wrecked.

    A perfect example of this is Heroic Four Kings/Spirit Kings on WoW, where until it was later changed, the remaining three kings could activate in any order. One of the kings required everyone to spread out. One required everyone to stack. If they spawned in a bad order, you wiped. There was no adapting. You just wiped.
    (16)

  8. #8
    Player
    KisaiTenshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,775
    Character
    Kisa Kisa
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    We do not yet know exactly how the new content will work.

    Like if it's a 24-man content, what would make it cool is breaking the parties up and dropping them in different starting locations to "defeat" trash before meeting up. The original Labyrinth instance was closer to this, but due to some persistent trollish behavior, it was often hard to get people to not pull early.

    What I want to see is something more like how the final dungeon in FF6 worked where each party has to "trigger" stuff for the other party to get through the maze. That includes things like the "faces" in The Sunken Temple of Qarn that open doors.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Sorry, no, Alexander is 8 man full party content. The 24 man is coming in 3.1.
    (25)

  10. #10
    Player
    Niyuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    266
    Character
    Cierre Mhakaracca
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 90
    I found the 24s so far BY FAR too easy. WoD might have been borderline okayish at the beginning, but they really are just popular because its a free loot vending machine you can rip through solo while feeling like a badass, while actually being semi-afk in many cases. As such, I appreciate that the core game is suited to 8. And I much rather have them balance classes than just dumb down content and throw more ppl at it. Hell, there is stuff in the 24s you could do with the proper 8.
    (6)

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