Hopefully Alexander/Savage will be 24 mans.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

8 man's are boring, I much prefer raids being like Crystal Tower. Raids should be with a lot of people, not 8. Also with the class imbalances I could see people excluding certain classes in 8 mans, however in 24 man's the new classes will be a lot more useful because of raidwide buffs/effects.

[Mhikail]

I agree with you for once in my life lol.
I want more 24 mans.

[Slappah]

I somewhat agree. I like bigger raids but I feel 8 man groups work very well and coil was fun and the player sized felt perfect.

Xiv has done 24 man raids but all of which have been 100% absolutely faceroll and I honestly don't see them making any 24-man content be as difficult as coil.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I somewhat agree. I like bigger raids but I feel 8 man groups work very well and coil was fun and the player sized felt perfect.

Xiv has done 24 man raids but all of which have been 100% absolutely faceroll and I honestly don't see them making any 24-man content be as difficult as coil.

The problem with 8 man's is there are classes that are simply a lot better in others in a small group. In 24 man's however the classes that are worse and specialists are better here because their effects have a greater effect over a raid.

It is done in other games, they made them 8 man's to make them more accessable because they thought a less group would make it easier to get in. However it ended up being completely subject to elitism, and class restricting. As you can already see an Ravana EX.

24 man's are actually more accessable because raids are willing to take a new class if they need a spot and they heard the player was decent. Whilst 8 man's are quite picky about it.

[Slappah]

The problem with 8 man's is there are classes that are simply a lot better in others in a small group. In 24 man's however the classes that are worse and specialists are better here because their effects have a greater effect over a raid.

It is done in other games, they made them 8 man's to make them more accessable because they thought a less group would make it easier to get in. However it ended up being completely subject to elitism, and class restricting. As you can already see an Ravana EX.

24 man's are actually more accessable because raids are willing to take a new class if they need a spot and they heard the player was decent. Whilst 8 man's are quite picky about it.

I typed up a long response to this and accidentaly deleted it so...

To put it shortly, I don't think S.E trusts it's playerbase to require 24 people to be 100% in sync in a a challenging encounter, and quite frankly neither do I.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I typed up a long response to this and accidentaly deleted it so...

To put it shortly, I don't think S.E trusts it's playerbase to require 24 people to be 100% in sync in a a challenging encounter, and quite frankly neither do I.

Then don't make encounters that are 100% in sync. Content like that simply doesn't work with 24 mans. Make content that is challenging because it requires adaptation to a script rather then a script that must be learned and followed.

Make fights that are never the same, even if you watch a youtube video the fights should be different via each raid. Sort of like raids in everquest, the mechanics were loose but had a bit more randomness to them that made it more about being adapted to the fighting and knowing what the boss can do rather then what it will do.

That - is the first step to it. If you make a fight like the old coils where you know exactly what will happen you will have the 100% sync problem.

[Zaft]

Sort of like raids in everquest, the mechanics were loose but had a bit more randomness to them that made it more about being adapted to the fighting and knowing what the boss can do rather then what it will do.

The problem with that is that you then have lucky and unlucky streaks that can completely skew the fight. Especially when pushing progression content, having random or semi-random encounters will cause some teams to luck out and continue on, while others get multiple shitty mechanics in a row and get wrecked.

A perfect example of this is Heroic Four Kings/Spirit Kings on WoW, where until it was later changed, the remaining three kings could activate in any order. One of the kings required everyone to spread out. One required everyone to stack. If they spawned in a bad order, you wiped. There was no adapting. You just wiped.

[KisaiTenshi]

We do not yet know exactly how the new content will work.

Like if it's a 24-man content, what would make it cool is breaking the parties up and dropping them in different starting locations to "defeat" trash before meeting up. The original Labyrinth instance was closer to this, but due to some persistent trollish behavior, it was often hard to get people to not pull early.

What I want to see is something more like how the final dungeon in FF6 worked where each party has to "trigger" stuff for the other party to get through the maze. That includes things like the "faces" in The Sunken Temple of Qarn that open doors.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Sorry, no, Alexander is 8 man full party content. The 24 man is coming in 3.1.

[Niyuka]

I found the 24s so far BY FAR too easy. WoD might have been borderline okayish at the beginning, but they really are just popular because its a free loot vending machine you can rip through solo while feeling like a badass, while actually being semi-afk in many cases. As such, I appreciate that the core game is suited to 8. And I much rather have them balance classes than just dumb down content and throw more ppl at it. Hell, there is stuff in the 24s you could do with the proper 8.