So I was kicked from Halatali today

[Lemuel81]

I agree it's not unreasonable to do more. I certainly like well-rounded players. My issue comes with the mentality of "If you don't cast Stone right now, you're kicked".

Pretty much this.


Personally if a healer is able to dps along with healing they should. Just standing there is not taking your class to its full potential. Being kicked because of it, is just dumb though.. If im doing a speed run and I see the whm with full mp, I also expect you to throw some dps. Theres no reason not to. Its helping your group out. Your a support class- with healing, buffs and dmg spells.

[Skyhunter]

As I said, when I'm sure I don't need full-on healing, I do use Cleric Stance on and off to do damage in between heals, most especially when there's a large group of adds I can use Holy on but just as often on other groups when need be.

I'd say if you're fulfilling your role in the raid, dungeon, whatever it is you're doing, then you're an average player. If you can do more, then that's awesome, but really only doing less is kick-worthy.

As I said though, this is more of a situation where the DPS didn't want me to play it safe with the new guy and thought his own idea of gameplay was better than my own. That being said, it seems the general consensus is that, obviously, it's great when a healer can get in a few damaging spells, but that what this individual did was harassment. Definitely glad for the constructive responses.

[Galgarion]

That has got to be the most STUPID reason to kick someone that I've heard of in a while. If the dps was so slow that they needed a boost from the healer in Halitali, then what more can be said? You didn't get votekicked so much as the universe saw fit to deliver you from the presence of two morons and a nub tank. Sounds like a get-out-of-fail card to me.

[Skyhunter]

That has got to be the most STUPID reason to kick someone that I've heard of in a while. If the dps was so slow that they needed a boost from the healer in Halitali, then what more can be said? You didn't get votekicked so much as the universe saw fit to deliver you from the presence of two morons and a nub tank. Sounds like a get-out-of-fail card to me.

This legit made me laugh, thank you for that. XD

[ChiiSoSeriouz]

You should have reported a.s.a.p. If you didn't feel like dps'ing for any reason that's your prerogative, period.

[MXMoondoggie]

In something that low level surely you are not chaining heals together you have cure only and medica one cure is like 50% of HP and medica can burst heal the full party when needed in one go. What else are you even doing? Standing around until somebody needs a cure? You have so much spare time between heals on trash most of the time it's just the Tank taking damage and you can cure them from about 50% you have medica for any emergency so what's so bad about making things a little quicker by doing some DPS? It's good to learn now because once you are farming EXDR and things like that people won't want a Healer who slacks.

While i don't agree with kicking anyone without a legit reason (You can report people for kicking without one include logs and names server name etc when possible. You can look anyone up if you don't know what server they are on and if the GM's think they did abuse kick they can warn them or take other action if needed) i think you should expect anyone to call you out for slacking.

[cgbspender]

It's appreciable to have a healer who contributes to speedrun / dps. But definitely not a 'must". It gains what ? 2 minutes overall on the entire dungeon ? 5 ? really insignificant. Also, the healer may not be comfortable switching cleric stance fast. They shouldn't have votekicked you for that.

Anyway, I agree on the point that you'll need to dps eventually. And there's nothing better than try at low level (less risks). First, if you are unfamiliar to switch in and out of cleric stance, start without. Cast an "aero", a few "earth" and that'll be good enough a contribution. When you get used to it and when you see you can do more without putting the part at risk, start switching stance progressively, in the phases you know best and you know there won't be any deadly shot.

[KisaiTenshi]

TL;DR

I've never had this issue.

Do understand that:
1. Healer DPS is designed around solo-play, as it would otherwise be impossible to pick a healer and get through any part of the main storyline involving combat. It's hard enough to actually do the healer (conjurer/whm) storyline by itself. For the reverse of this try playing Thaumaturge/BLM where you are given the same instruction "sleep additional enemies, focus on one", because you're squishy.
2. The Healer doesn't have any AOE's until level 50 unless they add Thaumaturge Blizard II. So expecting a WHM to DPS without prompting is silly.

A Scholar actually has more combat options since they derive from Arcanist which is a DPS class, and have a summonable pet.

If you know your final fantasy lore, you might also recall that the White Mage has never had a DPS spell other than Holy except for a spell that was meant for damaging zombies. That's a hold-over from Wizardy (Where the cleric was the healer and also a tank.) There are situations in FFXIV where you can just keep spamming cure/cure II on yourself to tank mobs when a tank is not available, and there's also at least one boss solution that involves spamming regen on yourself and kiting the adds until the boss is defeated.

If you get stuck in rude party as a healer or a tank, just ditch it. A healer is not required to DPS, nor is a Tank required to speed-run a dungeon. If people want to do this, they will pre-form their parties and not bother with the duty finder PUG's

Personally if a healer is able to dps along with healing they should. Just standing there is not taking your class to its full potential. Being kicked because of it, is just dumb though.. If im doing a speed run and I see the whm with full mp, I also expect you to throw some dps. Theres no reason not to. Its helping your group out. Your a support class- with healing, buffs and dmg spells.

90% of the time, a healer only has opportunity to DPS at the beginning (when it doesn't matter) or at the end (after any limit break), so if you see them standing there "doing nothing", they aren't doing nothing, they're conserving MP by not throwing Holy's that are expensive in MP and require a group of stationary mobs for maximum damage. The remaining 10% of the time are during Raids/full-party's where the dungeon has been "DPS-check'd"

I expect that people in PUG's will want to speed run, so I know exactly how to "save" the tank from dying in 10 seconds flat. That doesn't involve throwing Holy out there except to save the tank from multiple status effects that take too long to remove since Holy's primary effect is stun. If a tank can last long enough to throw holy up, then I'm required to spam Holy so I don't have to heal anyone. However this is detrimental to a speed run since you then have to wait for MP to recharge.

At the end of the day, Arcanist/White-Mage is not a good DPS class. Casting the DPS magic is often so slow that people kill your mobs before you finish casting during FATE's, this is why people are being exceptionally silly expecting them to "contribute" to the damage, because it just wastes a lot of time.

[KikoriL]

Tons of wut.

1.) Are you referring to WHM, or SCH dps? Because any SCH who's been through any coil turns can probably give you an average DPS number they're expected to hit to help their team push appropriately. It's become a viable suggestion for level 50 healers getting synched to the low 20's in roulette and the like to run with cleric stance on the entire time to avoid overheals and assist better in dps. It's "impossible" only with bad healers.
2.) Holy is at level 45, Bane is at level 30, and not all DPS assistance from healers has to be AoE.

FFXIV's WHM is derived from Conjurer, which has elemental elements at their disposal. The WHM job indeed does only learn one offensive skill in Holy, but then again a WHM isn't expected to only cure with Regen and Benediction. For what it's worth, FFIII White Mages had access to Aero spells as well.

Everything you're mentioning seems to involve the logic that healer DPS involves ONLY healer DPS. Yes, you don't want to be a WTFWHM, but there are good topics on how to balance dps with heals in speedruns and otherwise.

So healers doing DPS is pretty well accepted as possible, sometimes practical, at times expected, and in a few cases necessary. But the OP getting kicked for not damage it is still pretty stupid, since trying to be easy and careful with new players around is good justification.

[Lyzern]

Before I comment, lemme just put this disclaimer here:

I do NOT think you deserved to be kicked, I do however think that you were not performing at your 100%, but then again, maybe neither was the tank or the DDs, but it's much easier to see if the healer is performing well than seeing if a DD is.

In my opinion, healers in FFXIV are not your typical MMO healers that just sit around healing and twiddling their thumbs because their damage absolutely sucks. No, in FFXIV healer damage is actually quite high compared to other MMOs (I don't use any parses but comparing my healers' raw numbers with my DD's raw numbers, I'd say healers do about 50% the DPS that a DD does, can be much higher if the healer has much better gear than the DD and if the DD is simply bad.

Some people might say "nono, if that was true then healers would be OP". Not at all, just because they can deal medium dps, it doesn't mean they SHOULD do it at all times. It's circumstancial, healers usually don't have that much time to squeeze in much damage unless they're comfortable with the fight and their team.

With all that said: You should still pop Cleric Stance every once in a while and put refresh or DoTs, as they can be quite powerful and you can heal while doing damage.

Your job is to keep everyone alive, but does that mean you should just sit around doing nothing if everyone's healed? No, just as someone said in another thread about this subject: If this was true, then Tanks could simply not do anything at all as long as they had aggro on the boss and Summoners don't need to Raise and Bards don't need to play songs, etc etc.